Clothing, And What Is Worn Before It.

[Totally Franciscan]

I have noticed in a lot of religious communities of late the practice of not having postulants wear a veil.  I love the idea of a veil, but mostly I have really bad hair, very fine, and it is a real bear to make presentable.  When I was in the Franciscans, we had a veil with a very hard round piece that was worn on the top of the head, something like a pillbox.  We were allowed to use hair spray, which was really good for me to keep my miserable hair in place.  The idea that one could free up at least ten minutes at night forsaking curlers and at least five minutes in the morning trying to make one's hair presentable is in itself a major vote in favor of veils for postulants that cover all or at least most of the hair.  

[OnlySunshine]

I have noticed in a lot of religious communities of late the practice of not having postulants wear a veil.  I love the idea of a veil, but mostly I have really bad hair, very fine, and it is a real bear to make presentable.  When I was in the Franciscans, we had a veil with a very hard round piece that was worn on the top of the head, something like a pillbox.  We were allowed to use hair spray, which was really good for me to keep my miserable hair in place.  The idea that one could free up at least ten minutes at night forsaking curlers and at least five minutes in the morning trying to make one's hair presentable is in itself a major vote in favor of veils for postulants that cover all or at least most of the hair.  

 

I feel ya!  I had no idea what I was going to do if I didn't have the use of a veil if I became a postulant.  In one order I was planning to enter (the Carmelites), I was planning to ask if I could bring along my flat iron because I have really wavy hair that doesn't dry well.  I hate the idea of bringing something that is for vanity but I felt self-conscious if I had to wear my hair natural with no veil.

[Chiquitunga]

Bl. Elizabeth of the Trinity wore her own dress but they gave her a cape to wear over it.

 

Oh neat! I didn't know that. Here she is.

 

 

 

I love vee's reaction 

 

um ok all I can say is if I had to wear that I'd be reeeeaaally grateful there are no mirrors otherwise I'd be constantly laughing at myself  and if my family saw that..... they'd be  rotfl

 

 

No offense to Blessed Elizabeth though. She is beautiful (on the inside especially & out) wearing anything :saint:

[OnlySunshine]

Oh neat! I didn't know that. Here she is.

 

 

 

I love vee's reaction 

 

 

 

No offense to Blessed Elizabeth though. She is beautiful (on the inside especially & out) wearing anything :saint:

 

Everytime I see a picture of Bl. Elizabeth, I think of my friend, Sr. Mary Elizabeth, who is named for her.  She just started her 2nd year of novitiate!  :)

[Chiquitunga]

"Carmelite postulants wore a secular dress with a little capelet, and a small net bonnet on the head. The photograph below of Marie Guerin [cousin of St. Therese] as a postulant (she entered August 15, 1895) shows how St. Therese and all postulants dressed until they received the habit." http://www.thereseoflisieux.org/my-blog-about-st-therese/2013/4/8/an-essay-illustrated-with-19th-century-photos-to-celebrate-t.html

 

[Chiquitunga]

I always find it curious when people mention that the cap is helpful for postulants for them to start learning how to put their hands under their scapulars. I remember reading that in MY BELOVED and thinking what a neat idea it was. When I received the habit it was just a natural thing to do because everyone else around you is doing it, too! Remembering NOT to sit on your scapular was harder.

 

The skirt, blouse, cap was basically "uniform" for all postulants at one time, at least in the US. I know that in Europe most postulants just wore their secular clothes. Bl. Elizabeth of the Trinity wore her own dress but they gave her a cape to wear over it.

 

And for awhile that mop cap was standard, too! We have a photo of our Sr. Mary of the Immaculate Heart wearing hers and it was such a frilly little thing!

 

I forgot about that with the scapular... I think that would be much harder to always remember. I need to go check out the OCD Ceremonial from the 1920's to see if there is a particular penance for that, lol. probably :blush:

 

I'm also glad the mop bonnets are pretty much never used anymore (none to my knowledge) although I still would prefer it to no headcovering at all, I think....  I couldn't stand to have to mess with my hair either! I usually just tie it up, but it takes extra long to wash and all. If I were to enter the Poor Clares I would want to grow it out for the investiture, but for Carmel since it's not part of the ceremony, I'd rather have it really short from the start. I was late once for Vespers because of washing my hair (which was still pretty short) and had to kneel down with my face on the floor in choir and wait for Reverend Mother to knock to get up (it was a very short time though :))

 

Here is Sr. Teresita of the Infant Jesus & the Holy Face as a postulant at the Ã‰cija Carmel :heart:

 

 

http://carmelitasecija.es.tl/ALBUM-/index.htm

Edited July 13, 2013 by Chiquitunga

[graciandelamadrededios]

 

 

Before Vatican II - Discalced Carmelite Nuns folds their scapular this way when kneeling.

 

 

[Chiquitunga]

the image link is broken there, can you try it again? thanks! :)

[Chiquitunga]

my image there is broken too, here we go 

 

"Carmelite postulants wore a secular dress with a little capelet, and a small net bonnet on the head. The photograph below of Marie Guerin [cousin of St. Therese] as a postulant (she entered August 15, 1895) shows how St. Therese and all postulants dressed until they received the habit." http://www.thereseoflisieux.org/my-blog-about-st-therese/2013/4/8/an-essay-illustrated-with-19th-century-photos-to-celebrate-t.html

 

 

[AnneLine]

I've never seen that photo of Marie Guerin before, Chiquitunga!  That is a great set of photos they have put up on that blog!

 

I think the Lisieux archives and Maureen O'Riordan's blog and website in particular are very strict about non-copying of the photos.... I've seen all sorts of copyright reserved comments on those photos. 

 

So I think posting a link is probably the way to go....

 

BUT thank you, Gracian and Chiqui for doing this!

[graciandelamadrededios]

An error with phatmass? Probably?

[graciandelamadrededios]

Before Vatican II - Discalced Carmelite Nuns folds their scapular this way when kneeling.

 

[graciandelamadrededios]

Before Vatican II - Discalced Carmelite Nuns folds their scapular this way when kneeling.

 

 

There you go, Chiqui!  You probably have seen this photo many times....

[AnneLine]

An error with phatmass? Probably?

 

 

I don't think so, Gratian, although I could be wrong.  I've tried to copy photos from Lisieux archives before and always get that whether I am on Phatmass or elsewhere.... I think it might be a copyright thing....

 

About the cap... I'm not sure if it is a 'mop' cap or a 'mob' cap -- if it was the latter, it was a commonly-worn item of women's clothing from late 19th & early 20th C. used when doing housework.  Kind of like the little frilly caps that Victorian and Edwardian maids wore.  So it would make SENSE that that would be what they would have the postulants wear.... again, secular clothing for that time period.  Same comment with the little capes... they may have been used as 'scapular training wheels' but they may also simply have been clothing of lay people of that period.

 

Many of the religious sister costumes of that time that don't have habits that trace to religious orders (Carmelites, Dominicans, Franciscans, Benedictines, etc.) often had the capes because it was a common article of women's clothing for that time...

 

 

As far as postulant outfits in general.... I think some kind of uniform non-habit makes sense.  Either a jumper, a simple skirt & blouse, or something comparable.  I think the whole idea is to get someone unconcerned about what they look like... and any of those do that.

 

I was in a community that had the ugly blue jumpers and white blouses... and mantillas.  HATED the mantilla.  It was always sailing off into the center of the choir during the Liturgy of the Hours.....  the danged thing had a life of its own!   I would think a simple veil would be much less bother.....

 

 

Edited July 13, 2013 by AnneLine

[AnneLine]

Another website that won't let me copy photos, but does have good, detailed pictures of what postulants wore at the Davenport Carmel... not sure when, but my guess would be about a hundred years ago..... habits make it difficult to gauge dates!  ;)

 

http://carmelsong.com/Davenport.htm

 

 

UPDATED:

 

Searching a bit further, this would probably just about date the photo:

 

"Quo Vadis ~ Whither Goest Thou

 

.... On June 29, 1916 two automobiles drove the little community of nine to their new home. Realizing that the vehicles would never make it to the crest of the hill on 14th Street, the sisters trudged up the perpendicular incline with their luggage, all the while lamenting horses were no longer at their disposal. This also put new meaning to the biblical: "Take up your bed and walk!"

 

Those moving from Davenport besides Mother Clare, Mother Aloysius and Sister Gertrude were: Sisters Mary Enright, Teresa Seelbach, Magdalen Heun, Joseph Angerer, Paula Doersching, and Veronica McGinty.

 

The next day, feast of the Sacred Heart that year, the first Mass was celebrated by Father N. Meinhardt. The room for Mass later became the library and chapter room."  

 

http://carmelitesofeldridge.org/heart.html

 

Edited July 13, 2013 by AnneLine