Same Love

[cappie]

Honestly, I like the song.

I think he was communicating his thoughts in a very positive way. He really isnt tearing down religion at all in my opinion.

He is pointing out that love is universal whether you believe in God or not.

However the irony is that while those who consider themselves christian and SAY they love the person but not the sin, really communicate a different message through their actions whether its intentional or not.

 

I have witnessed this personally with friends/family as well as on PM.

 

:like3: Good point, in my pastoral ministry  I am done listening to people writing off the pain they’ve inflicted on others as a casualty of Truth. As if it is not them hurting you, it is God. That kind of talk is not fair......, to God.   Some people's words are many things- skilled, gentle, rhythmic, but they are far from loving.  :unsure:

Edited July 11, 2013 by cappie

[CrossCuT]

I've heard the song multiple times on the radio and yes I took the time to read the lyrics in the OP. I'm really indifferent to the song. But like I said in my previous post, I'm not too keen on painfully obvious lyrics. It's not necessarily the content of the song but the way the message is presented. Just like I don't like songs that are essentially a sung story, like what you might find in country music.

Do you make a similar thread for all songs you find painfully obvious? Or just this one? :|

 

 

:like3: Good point, in my pastoral ministry  I am done listening to people writing off the pain they’ve inflicted on others as a casualty of Truth. As if it is not them hurting you, it is God. That kind of talk is not fair......, to God.   Some people's words are many things- skilled, gentle, rhythmic, but they are far from loving.  :unsure:

I have had my fair share of struggles with my personal thoughts along side what the Church says in regards to Homosexuality...I was (still am I guess) having a hard time between guilt and more guilt. Do I follow what my faith teaches and condemn the act? If I did...I felt like subconsciously I was unable to separate the people from the sin..I could literally feel the disdain and begrudging attitude under my breath whenever homosexuals came up in the conversation. I wasnt happy with that.  I felt that when I would see those people, I would just see the thing that I wasnt suppose to support. Maybe I am weaker than most in that regard, but I feel like many more people struggle with the same thing without realizing it.

 

Ive told this story before but some close family friends of mine (who are all very wonderful Catholics) were discussing some homosexual related topics and when referring to homosexuals in the conversation one of the ladies said "Those people are so messed up". Again...a huge wave a guilt washed over me. Do I side with this mentality? I didnt like it.

I think my problem was that in my struggles I was viewing homosexuals AS homosexuals...not as people. That might seem extremely obvious to some people and to some degree, it is. But my mental state didnt recognize it...which is what caused all my troubles.

 

I still dont know what Im suppose to do in regards to finding common ground with my faith on this issue but the bottom line Im trying to say is this: I love homosexuals and I am going to help them. :unsure: 

I hope God can forgive me.

[4588686]

Right about Greece and Rome. Homosexuality has existed in lots of cultures - but Greece and Rome are only two cultures, and the period in which homosexuality was accepted was rather brief compared to their entire histories.

 

And even when they were "accepted," they were never condoned by society in the form of marriage. 

 

And one or two examples - or even fifteen examples - are nothing compared to the norm lived by most people in most cultures over most time. 

 

 

It takes an incredible amount of hubris - such as can only be found in the most decadent societies; those completely out of touch with nature, history, and other contemporary societies; those that consider themselves enlightened enough to finally see the Truth that humanity has misunderstood all these centuries - to think that the Truth can be changed by the passing of a couple of laws in a couple of societies.  

 

 

Hm.  I could make the exact same argument about slavery.  

 

It really doesn't matter though.  You all have lost this battle.  Support for gay rights is overwhelmingly supported by the rising generation.  And that's part of a larger global trend.  So get on the bandwagon or just be grumpy until you leave this mortal coil.  Either way, we're going to the same place.  

[franciscanheart]

:like3: Good point, in my pastoral ministry  I am done listening to people writing off the pain they’ve inflicted on others as a casualty of Truth. As if it is not them hurting you, it is God. That kind of talk is not fair......, to God.   Some people's words are many things- skilled, gentle, rhythmic, but they are far from loving.  :unsure:

Amen, Father.

A good friend passed this along to me yesterday. I can't stop thinking about it. It so perfectly words exactly what's been on my heart for years. I am still treated poorly by fellow Catholics, but I believe at my core that I have not abandoned God or His will for us.

"The most zealous, self-appointed guardians of Catholic identity today can be so busy playing purity police that they miss the essence of the Gospels. Jesus warned against moral arrogance and scandalized the religious establishment by eating with prostitutes. He reminded the high priests of his time that their vigilance toward the letter of law meant little if the spirit of the law was ignored."

(I imagine Google-ing the quote will bring you to the place where he first read that. I'll not link here as I don't wish to stir up a debate about the site or the actual issue they were addressing.)

[CatholicCid]

Hm.  I could make the exact same argument about slavery.  

 

It really doesn't matter though.  You all have lost this battle.  Support for gay rights is overwhelmingly supported by the rising generation.  And that's part of a larger global trend.  So get on the bandwagon or just be grumpy until you leave this mortal coil.  Either way, we're going to the same place.  

 

I would disagree. At least in the US, until this last year, gay 'marriage' has generally been enacted through judicial means, overturning the popular vote which rejects the concept. 

[Winchester]

 

 

...society...societies...societies...societies.  

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm8oxC24QZc[/media]

[CatholicsAreKewl]

It takes an incredible amount of hubris - such as can only be found in the most decadent societies; those completely out of touch with nature, history, and other contemporary societies; those that consider themselves enlightened enough to finally see the Truth that humanity has misunderstood all these centuries - to think that the Truth can be changed by the passing of a couple of laws in a couple of societies.  

 

I think someone in favor of segregation would use a similar argument as convincing as this one. The truth is that the current law is unfair in that it's championing one lifestyle over another. The social engineering in this case would be the prohibition of gay marriage... actually, our governments entire dealing with marriage is social engineering.

Edited July 11, 2013 by CatholicsAreKewl

[Winchester]

http://www.tomwoods.com/blog/government-plays-social-conservatives-like-a-fiddle/

[PhuturePriest]

Do you make a similar thread for all songs you find painfully obvious? Or just this one? :|

 

 

I have had my fair share of struggles with my personal thoughts along side what the Church says in regards to Homosexuality...I was (still am I guess) having a hard time between guilt and more guilt. Do I follow what my faith teaches and condemn the act? If I did...I felt like subconsciously I was unable to separate the people from the sin..I could literally feel the disdain and begrudging attitude under my breath whenever homosexuals came up in the conversation. I wasnt happy with that.  I felt that when I would see those people, I would just see the thing that I wasnt suppose to support. Maybe I am weaker than most in that regard, but I feel like many more people struggle with the same thing without realizing it.

 

Ive told this story before but some close family friends of mine (who are all very wonderful Catholics) were discussing some homosexual related topics and when referring to homosexuals in the conversation one of the ladies said "Those people are so messed up". Again...a huge wave a guilt washed over me. Do I side with this mentality? I didnt like it.

I think my problem was that in my struggles I was viewing homosexuals AS homosexuals...not as people. That might seem extremely obvious to some people and to some degree, it is. But my mental state didnt recognize it...which is what caused all my troubles.

 

I still dont know what Im suppose to do in regards to finding common ground with my faith on this issue but the bottom line Im trying to say is this: I love homosexuals and I am going to help them. :unsure:

I hope God can forgive me.

It's good to love homosexuals. We're supposed to love everyone, and give love to those who especially need it. Struggling with homosexuality is something a lot of people need love and support for. God loves them and wants to help them as well, so God doesn't need to forgive you of anything.

[CrossCuT]

It's good to love homosexuals. We're supposed to love everyone, and give love to those who especially need it. Struggling with homosexuality is something a lot of people need love and support for. God loves them and wants to help them as well, so God doesn't need to forgive you of anything.

 

Of course its good to love Homosexuals. We need to love everyone! My point was that while I KNEW that, I didn't necessarily follow through with it.

Its hard to explain :unsure:

[Luigi]

I think someone in favor of segregation would use a similar argument as convincing as this one. The truth is that the current law is unfair in that it's championing one lifestyle over another. The social engineering in this case would be the prohibition of gay marriage... actually, our governments entire dealing with marriage is social engineering.

Neither our government nor any other government has ever developed a policy by which gay marriages were permitted. It is the default position in all human experience to "prohibit" gay marriage, although it has seldom been officially prohibited simply because no one ever dreamed to ask for it.

[HisChildForever]

Do you make a similar thread for all songs you find painfully obvious? Or just this one? :|

 

Um what? I didn't make this thread. And I don't even know what you're implying here.

[CatholicsAreKewl]

Neither our government nor any other government has ever developed a policy by which gay marriages were permitted. It is the default position in all human experience to "prohibit" gay marriage, although it has seldom been officially prohibited simply because no one ever dreamed to ask for it.

 

This is simply not true and even if it was, morality is not solely defined by what the majority believes. Gay people aren't a new phenomenon. If gay couples didn't dream to ask for the ability to get married, I would imagine it was because they would be ostracized for coming out. It's human nature to fear what is alien to us. Think of the bias against left handed people.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bias_against_left-handed_people#Negative_associations_in_cultures

 

See how subtle differences affect the way we treat people? The excuses for enforcing a statewide ban on marriage are stupid. Maybe as stupid as the reasoning behind daylight savings time. I honestly don't think the Catholic Church will continue to push this position on a political level in 30 years.

Edited July 11, 2013 by CatholicsAreKewl

[CrossCuT]

Um what? I didn't make this thread. And I don't even know what you're implying here.

Oh woops! My bad! Your avatars are similar in color! Disregard that comment!!  :hehe2:

[KnightofChrist]

See how subtle differences affect the way we treat people? The excuses for enforcing a statewide ban on marriage are stupid. Maybe as stupid as the reasoning behind daylight savings time. I honestly don't think the Catholic Church will continue to push this position on a political level in 30 years.

Stupid is as stupid does...

Anyway yeah the Catholic Church will continue till the end of time to push for Christianized societies, it is a part of the faith. The rise in homosexuality may well be a temporary one, they cannot reproduce, in time their power will fall away.