Charging For Encyclicals

[qfnol31]

It just kinda makes me mad when people keep harping on the "it's copyrighted, it's legal for them to do this" when it's clearly not MORAL for them to be doing it. It's enough to make a man want to put the encyclical on the Pirate Bay in the name of the New Evangelization.

But it's perfectly moral. The Holy Father has certain rights too, to ensure that his texts are used in the most proper ways. That's what the Vatican is trying to do.

 

Whether it's doing it well is completely different, but the system isn't necessarily flawed.

[arfink]

I'm actually for protecting the integrity of the system. I believe that copyrights (as broken as the system is, particularly with the 70-year limit), serve a great purpose for different things. I also think that it has to be enforced, but stupidly the enforcement is left to the wrong people.

 

I realize you like the idea of an open license, but even copyrighted texts can be opened up. Copyrighting texts doesn't necessarily imply that money is the only way to prevent the distribution of a text.

 

This is why I keep saying to use Creative Commons! It's not a replacement for Copyright, it's a license that allows you additional usage on top of Copyright. I cannot understand why they won't do it! None of the arguments you have given make any sense when CC-BY-NC-ND licensing exists to be freely used.

[qfnol31]

You didn't read what I wrote, did you?

 

I said, I can understand their chagrin at someone else distributing it. That's totally against copyright and they're within their rights to issue a cease and desist.

 

THAT SAID

 

There is essentially no cost to converting a PDF to an EPUB. I could take the PDF and convert it to EPUB at any number of conversion websites across the internet for no cost other than my regular internet bill. And if the Vatican and USCCB can distribute the PDF for free, then it stands to logic that they can, and should, distribute the EPUB for free as well. 

 

Charging for a print copy makes sense, because there is cost in printing. Hosting 2 files where you were hosting 1 costs so little extra that there is literally no point for charging for one of those files. Like Arf said it borders on simony. And it is definitely a hindrance to distributing the document. 

 

They'll be making any money back by selling print copies, and honestly, going into the red on an encyclical is such a non-issue that I don't see the point.

 

It's addressed to the laity, in addition to the clergy, and so it should be easy and accessible to all the laity.

I did read your initial post. I don't agree your understanding of where PDFs originate. The PDF probably comes from the file used for publication, not the other way around. Futhermore, PDFs have certain unalterable qualities to them that protect them. Certainly a person can make his/her own, but PDFs have certain properties that ebups do not. Epubs are made on xhtml, which is much easier to manipulate and it is more difficult to tell an altered version from an original. I know people on here don't care about this that much, but as someone who spends most of his time looking for the most authentic documents available, I know how important this really is and how quickly things can get messed up.

 

This isn't a case of simony and I don't think it's really close. It's not selling spiritual goods, but is selling something else. Otherwise selling a Bible would count as simony. 

[qfnol31]

This is why I keep saying to use Creative Commons! It's not a replacement for Copyright, it's a license that allows you additional usage on top of Copyright. I cannot understand why they won't do it! None of the arguments you have given make any sense when CC-BY-NC-ND licensing exists to be freely used.

I haven't disagreed with this. The only reason I can think of their reluctance is because Creative Commons has no juridical standing in Italy at present (unless something has changed in the last couple of years):

http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Italy

 

This has been a real problem for Italian copyright in general. Italian Laws are very difficult to apply to the Vatican, and Creative Commons is presently working to establish juridical norms.

 

The real hitch comes when trying to apply these laws internationally. What laws apply and how?

[arfink]

In the case of international law, copyright is little better.

[qfnol31]

In the case of international law, copyright is little better.

In Italy all laws are a mess... It's a nightmare.

[arfink]

I did read your initial post. I don't agree your understanding of where PDFs originate. The PDF probably comes from the file used for publication, not the other way around. Futhermore, PDFs have certain unalterable qualities to them that protect them. Certainly a person can make his/her own, but PDFs have certain properties that ebups do not. Epubs are made on xhtml, which is much easier to manipulate and it is more difficult to tell an altered version from an original. I know people on here don't care about this that much, but as someone who spends most of his time looking for the most authentic documents available, I know how important this really is and how quickly things can get messed up.

 

This isn't a case of simony and I don't think it's really close. It's not selling spiritual goods, but is selling something else. Otherwise selling a Bible would count as simony. 

 

Concerning PDFs there is no inherent security to the format. I am what some people might term a wannabe white-hat hacker, so I know a bit about this. And even the minimal security PDF offers is not present in the version the Vatican has shipped. As for XML being less secure, it's probably as secure as the HTML version the Vatican has already released. It's all about the encryption you want to use. You can make it as secure as you want it to, but increasing security decreases accessibility.
 

Integrity could be done with shared keys, if they really and truly wanted to protect the integrity of the texts.

Edited July 7, 2013 by arfink

[qfnol31]

That's expecting an awful lot from a place where the butler was just caught stealing documents.

Oh, I can't get over it... It was the butler!

[AnneLine]

That's expecting an awful lot from a place where the butler was just caught stealing documents.

Oh, I can't get over it... It was the butler!

 

No doubt in the Vatican library with a candlestick!

[arfink]

That's expecting an awful lot from a place where the butler was just caught stealing documents.

Oh, I can't get over it... It was the butler!

 

Yes, but we can expect them to make a big show about enforcing copyrights. :hehe2:

[Apotheoun]

Honestly, just copy and paste the html text into a word document and create your own pdf. That's what I do.

[Apotheoun]

ENCYCLICAL LETTER 

LUMEN FIDEI 

OF THE SUPREME PONTIFF 

FRANCIS 

TO THE BISHOPS PRIESTS AND DEACONS 

CONSECRATED PERSONS 

THE LAY FAITHFUL

AND THOSE WILLING TO PAY A NOMINAL FEE

ON FAITH

[AnneLine]

 

ENCYCLICAL LETTER 

LUMEN FIDEI 

OF THE SUPREME PONTIFF 

FRANCIS 

TO THE BISHOPS PRIESTS AND DEACONS 

CONSECRATED PERSONS 

THE LAY FAITHFUL

AND THOSE WILLING TO PAY A NOMINAL FEE

ON FAITH

 

 

.... 'and those willing to pay a nominal fee on faith' ?

 

I dunno... 'in God we trust; all others must pay cash'    I don't trust the others to pay on faith....

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

I think it is fine to sell catholic documents and copyright them, the holy catholic church needs money rows to feed and clothe as many poor worldwide as it can and give them bibles also, free of charge. If you have a poor person in your parish whom can't afford it, buy him or her a copy. Or if your whole parish is on the poor side get a few people to chuck in 5 bucks each to buy the less fortunate a copy.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

You all realize that the holy catholic church international is in more than 2 billion dollars debt per year, feeding,clothing and educating the poor including scripture. I questioned our previous arch bishop about as to whether it was time to encourage people to pay 10% of there wage to the church coffers and get out of debt. And he said that if the church wasn't in debt he wouldn't be catholic even if everyone was giving 10%. i guess he meant the church would be doing more therefore remaining in debt. Didn't answer my question really about giving 10% but i understand his ideal.