Vocation: Consecration V. Marriage?

[thepiaheart]

Hi y'all! I've been wondering how others discerning religious life -- particularly those who are rather sure that the path of consecrated life is their vocation -- relate themselves to both of the vocations in thinking and praying about them, etc. For a religious vocation, does marriage ever cross your mind, and if it does, in what way?

 

I'm asking because I have a deep sense, a deep desire, for religious life, but I often find myself wondering whether I'm imagining things or whether it's something that I've persuaded myself into wanting, rather than being the Lord's will for me. I'll think of marriage and its beauty and will be met with a sense of guilt that I would choose the religious vocation over the marital sacrament. It's a conversation I've not yet had with my spiritual director, and I'm just wondering how others experience this, experience the renunciation of one good for another, and whether there is a chance that this experience of mine might suggest a vocation to marriage. (I'm one of those who has always loved and wanted the religious life, to live under the counsels, etc., so much so that I've never dated or given marriage its serious consideration. And I don't want to. But perhaps I should. Perhaps I need to. To some extent I'm terrified that I'll be called to marriage and disappointed that the Lord would refuse my total self-gift.)

Thoughts?

 

Pax Christi!

Edited July 1, 2013 by thepiaheart

[nikita92]

If I could do it all over again...starting at 16...I would seriously pay attention to the religious vocation..and not do what other people think I should do!! (Done)

[AveMariaPurissima]

I'm not sure what to tell you, except that I know exactly what you mean.

[maximillion]

There are quite a few threads on VS that persue this question, or ones very similar to it.

 

The truth is that we will always wonder. There is no certainty in giving one's Fiat - whatever the sphere of life. One's doubts are there because faith would be meaningless without them!

In my community as I am sure in many others, we were told that each day we give our Fiat to the Religious Life anew, and I can attest to that even once Professed.......

And in marriage as each change, each child (if blessed with them) comes along, each time we meet a personable and strong catholic man, we have to remind ourselves of our faith in the commitment we gave, be they marriage or other Vows.

 

Discerning His will is not a once and for all event, it is an ongoing search for Him in the deepest parts of my being, a preparedness to be in silence, and at times to have only silence as response to my searching.

 

If you follow your heart and choose to try the Religious Life, these questions won't go away, but look for peace and for joy, and you won't be going far wrong.

Oh, and be sure of it, there can be total gift of self in marriage too, it is just the nature of the living out of the gift that is different.

[Ex Tyburn Junior]

(I'm one of those who has always loved and wanted the religious life, to live under the counsels, etc., so much so that I've never dated or given marriage its serious consideration. And I don't want to. But perhaps I should. Perhaps I need to. To some extent I'm terrified that I'll be called to marriage and disappointed that the Lord would refuse my total self-gift.)
 

 

And I was exactly the opposite. Never thought about religious life at all till God expressly TOLD me in the most unmistakeable way to go to Tyburn. So I did. And ouch, that ended badly.

 

I always wanted to get married; I still do. I know it's a hard row to hoe, but I still think many times that this is my heart's longing. I just have to pray about it - and yes, walk in silence and darkness and just accept that this is the way it is.

 

But yes, if you enter religious life, you will certainly go through times when you think about marriage and sometimes you may even experience very strong temptations to it, at certain times of the month and at certain times of life (when the biological clock starts ticking).

 

There is no 'once and for all' choice. You do have to renew that choice daily, just as you would in marriage when you meet someone attractive who isn't your spouse.

[inperpetuity]

Being attracted to the opposite sex and marriage is natural.  At some point even though I'm still attracted to those things....at times, I came to the realization that I could only be fulfilled as a consecrated woman, a spouse of Christ.  Most of the time the attraction is for that, but sometimes I am in the dark and don't know where I am and the clouds of uncertainty gather, and that's when I wonder, but then they always lift and I find my way again and usually an increase of trust that God is bringing me to where He wants me whatever that is, and then I'm at peace......until the next storm.

[Chiquitunga]

 

http://www.amazon.com/Religious-Vocation-An-Unnecessary-Mystery/dp/0895558238/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1372733919&sr=8-1&keywords=religious+vocation

 

My friend who recently made her First Profession in Carmel had so many doubts about whether or not she had a vocation before she entered, during the time when she was discerning and writing communities, often getting turned down. It wasn't marriage she struggled with (she had already made a private vow) but her health (related to physical strength) She said this book helped her SO MUCH and gave her a totally different perspective on religious vocations. Although your struggle is different, maybe it will be a great help to you too. I still need to read it myself. 

 

Maybe I'll come back later here to share some personal thoughts, but in short, I do feel called to marriage.. marriage to Jesus, and haven't felt since the time He first called me (10+ years ago) that it was ever His will for me to give my heart to anyone else - not that you cannot also give yourself to God as a wife and mother and become a saint. But this is just how I experienced the call to religious life personally, although it's an ongoing discernment and I cannot know for sure if I have a religious vocation until final vows. It may also end up being single life with private vows, or Consecrated Virginity, which I have a huge love for! But I have a great certainty that becoming a wife and mother in the natural realm is not His will for me. Everyone's path is unique though. 

 

Here is a video that was posted in a recent thread on Dating and Discernment (different topic though related somewhat) that I think you might find helpful. They are priests with the Apostles of the Interior Life. I think they do an excellent job in all of their videos on discernment. :like:

 

Aha!  I just happened to chance upon this today.    :smile3:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pouav-eWQeQ

 

Hope this helps!

 

~Crucesignata~

 

 

God bless & I will remember you in prayer! :pray:

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

Chiqui, I'm glad you posted this book as one of the biggest problem people have today with discernment is they often work out of many mixed up ideas of what a vocation to religious life is. Paths of Love is another very helpful book because the author looks at the different ways of understanding vocation and discernment through St. Alphonsus, St. Ignatius and St. Thomas Aquinas. http://summitdominicans.3dcartstores.com/Paths-of-Love_p_73.html

Thepiaheart, if you have a strong desire for religious life then don't be afraid to go for it. This is such a great grace. St. Thomas is very matter-of-fact about discerning a vocation to the religious state and his is an understanding that was pretty much the norm up until about 1960 or so. First, he doesn't use the word vocation and neither does canon law. Canon law reserves the word vocation in it's most exact understanding for priesthood. St. Thomas says that the religious state is objectively a higher good so it is never wrong to desire it. (It's a higher good because of the virtue of charity.)

So, he says, if you have a true motive, aren't obligated to care for your parents, pay debts and have regular health than go for it. Simply that. The testing of whether you are given the grace to live monastic life comes with the living of the life. You can be relatively certain before you enter but you really can't know until you try it.

I would also say that thinking you won't really know until final vows is not true. You must know way before then. The vows are really confirming your intention and to use St. Thomas' lingo, make us stable in a state of life.

 

Yes, God gives us the grace but a lot of discernment (which is really not a good word to use; St. Thomas likes to use the word deliberate which I think is stronger) seems to stay in a certain passivity and a lot of people seem afraid to CHOOSE the life.

Religious life is not an extraordinary grace. It is an ordinary grace. It is a more intense living out of our baptismal promises. It is not a vocation in the way the priesthood. The priesthood is an extraordinary grace and truly a VOCATION because a man is called forth out of the people of God to offer to God the sacrifice of the Mass and to serve the people of God.

For myself I always strongly desired to become a nun and belong totally to God. It never dawned on me that perhaps it wasn't my vocation. I just assumed that if I had the desire and that my motives were true that it was from God and that since it is an invitation I am free to accept it or not but that he doesn't necessarily keep on extending the invitation.

Lastly, one really isn't called to marriage. One does marry marriage. One marries another person. Really anyone can marry. It's the natural vocation of the human person. One can say "I'm called to marriage" or "I want to get married" but if you never find the person you sense you are to live your whole life with than until you do that is a desire but nothing more. Of course, up until modern times people got married all the time and it wasn't based on falling in love but on families, lands, etc. being united.

 

You might find this helpful: http://www.pathsoflove.com/

Lastly, don't be afraid to talk to your director about this. I think a lot of it is the ole boy trying to confuse you.

 

I will be praying for you!

 

 

[ACS67]

Sr. Mary Catharine thank you so much for those links!  The Paths of Love web site is very helpful. :)

[FFI Griswold]

Ave Maria!

 

I can echo some of the same sentiments. I still think about marriage also, but I want this life much more. In either state my goal would be to become a saint and grow in the love of God, but in the religious state I can do it exponentially better.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pouav-eWQeQ

 

Good points in this video. I like how they drew a straight line to God for consecrated life and a wavy, out of control line for marriage! (ok, maybe not out of control :hehe:)

 

Mary Mother of Vocations, pray for us! St. Joseph, pray for us! St. Gianna Molla, pray for us!

 

In the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary,

 

fra John Paul

[FFI Griswold]

Religious life is not an extraordinary grace. It is an ordinary grace. It is a more intense living out of our baptismal promises. It is not a vocation in the way the priesthood. The priesthood is an extraordinary grace and truly a VOCATION because a man is called forth out of the people of God to offer to God the sacrifice of the Mass and to serve the people of God.

 

Ave Maria!

 

I have not heard this before. I have understood that religious life is the supernatural life and the evangelical counsels as requiring supernatural, extraordinary grace.

 

From Fr. John Hardon (emphasis mine):

 

What does it mean to say the New Code of Canon Law gives us a strong doctrinal basis for a life consecrated to the practice of the evangelical counsels?

 

It means consecrated life is not only intelligible apart from faith, it is unlivable without supernatural grace and not only supernatural grace, but extraordinary grace corresponding to the extraordinary vocation to which Christ calls those who receive this grace.

 

 

Mary Mother of Vocations, pray for us! St. Joseph, pray for us! St. Gianna Molla, pray for us!

 

In the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary,

 

fra John Paul

[inperpetuity]

 

http://www.amazon.com/Religious-Vocation-An-Unnecessary-Mystery/dp/0895558238/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1372733919&sr=8-1&keywords=religious+vocation

 

My friend who recently made her First Profession in Carmel had so many doubts about whether or not she had a vocation before she entered, during the time when she was discerning and writing communities, often getting turned down. It wasn't marriage she struggled with (she had already made a private vow) but her health (related to physical strength) She said this book helped her SO MUCH and gave her a totally different perspective on religious vocations. Although your struggle is different, maybe it will be a great help to you too. I still need to read it myself. 

 

 

This is an excellent book.  It's very encouraging too I might add.  That's interesting about your friend, Chiqui.

 

[inperpetuity]

I would prop you Sr. Mary Catherine, but the button is gone.  So, Yes.

[Antigonos]

Sr. Mary Catherine wrote: Lastly, one really isn't called to marriage. One does marry marriage. One marries another person. Really anyone can marry. It's the natural vocation of the human person. One can say "I'm called to marriage" or "I want to get married" but if you never find the person you sense you are to live your whole life with than until you do that is a desire but nothing more. Of course, up until modern times people got married all the time and it wasn't based on falling in love but on families, lands, etc. being united.

 

It seems to me that both marriage and religious vocation have been over-romanticized in the past 150 years or so.  Even after truly arranged marriages seemed to have stopped in Western civilization in the 19th century, it was usually the custom for the young man to first approach the girl's parents and ask permission to begin courting her -- and the parents [usually the father] didn't think primarily about whether the couple loved each other but whether they would suit each other -- a much broader set of parameters.  It was also true that single women were at great disadvantages, economically and politically, and so nearly all women married.  In fact, there weren't very many unmarried men around either, although they did tend to marry at later ages than women.  You grew up, you married, you founded a family.  The actual choice to remain single is a relatively new phenomenon, and for women to be able to support themselves and not need a man's physical protection even more recent.  It wasn't all that long ago that a woman legally passed from her father's control to a husband's.  If she did remain a spinster, her father or some other male guardian was legally responsible for her, no matter how old she was.

 

We all know, too, that for far too long, the convent was regarded as a place not just for those with vocations, but who had "no other choice" because living single, for a woman, was just so "impossible".  Fortunately, all that has changed, along with the idea that a married woman shouldn't work, or that certain professions were incompatible with marriage.  But the downside has been that the life of a nun has undergone, in the public mind, a transformation [helped a lot by Hollywood, I think].  Beautiful, rather ethereal creatures, always looking heavenward, in flowing exotic habits, saintly behavoir at all times, wearing expressions of deep seriousness and eyes full of compassion for suffering humanity...I think part of the impact of "The Nun's Story" was in that it showed not only how hard nuns worked, but that they are very human.  Looking at photos of nuns a century ago [or even less] and now, the older photos do not show them doing "ordinary" things and having fun, or even smiling broadly at the camera -- that was thought inappropriate demeanor.  The pendulum has swung the other way now.

 

Both conceptions are false, IMO.  There's nothing romantic about a toddler with diarrhea having a temper tantrum [my granddaughter, yesterday] exactly when her parents have booked a table at an expensive restaurant to celebrate their anniversary [Grandma to the rescue!]  nor is there anything romantic about blocked pipes in a convent, or working in the convent garden in really hot, humid weather [or coping with a rowdy classroom on a day when Sister has PMS].

 

It's called "life".

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

Ave Maria!

 

I have not heard this before. I have understood that religious life is the supernatural life and the evangelical counsels as requiring supernatural, extraordinary grace.

 

From Fr. John Hardon (emphasis mine):

 

What does it mean to say the New Code of Canon Law gives us a strong doctrinal basis for a life consecrated to the practice of the evangelical counsels?

 

It means consecrated life is not only intelligible apart from faith, it is unlivable without supernatural grace and not only supernatural grace, but extraordinary grace corresponding to the extraordinary vocation to which Christ calls those who receive this grace.

 

 

Mary Mother of Vocations, pray for us! St. Joseph, pray for us! St. Gianna Molla, pray for us!

 

In the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary,

 

fra John Paul

 

 

Fra. John Paul, I'm not quite sure how Fr. Hardon was using the term "extraordinary" here but I was using it in the traditional sense of charism. Religious life is primary about the person saving his or her soul and becoming a saint. Priesthood is first a gift for the Church. Obviously, it is also the way that the man called to the priesthood becomes holy but he is a priest first to be a minister to the people of God. He doesn't become a priest primarily for his own sake. So it is a charismatic grace in that sense. Interestingly canon law only used the word VOCATION in reference to priesthood but not for religious life.

I'm not quite sure why Fr. Hardon emphasized the grace needed had to be supernatural as though there is such a thing as "natural" grace. I understand he is saying that we can't live religious life simply by our own natural desires and determination.

St. Thomas' understanding of religious life is a traditional understanding that I think has been lost for the most part. (He wasn't alone; this was how it was understood by the Church.) He doesn't see it as any great mystery because he looks at the desire to enter the religious state (he doesn't use the word vocation) as desiring a greater good and if one has the basic qualities needed, especially a true motive than, because of his great confidence in grace and the goodness of God, he says, than of course you can trust that you have a vocation. His emphasis is not on the person but on the good of the religious state itself.

Joseph Bolin does a really good job of talking about how St. Thomas talks about deliberating whether one should enter religious life. You can read it here http://www.pathsoflove.com/books/what-is-a-vocation.html