Nihil Obstat Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 this is not about correcting something. it's about understanding the language used in the Liturgy... Then perhaps saying "it is grammatically wrong" was a bit hasty. :| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 St. Thomas Aquinas was aware of this usage of Credo Deo vs. Credo in Deum (and he also adds Credo Deum). In the Summa theologiae, IIa IIae, Q 2, A 2, ob. 1 he writes, Ad secundum sic proceditur. Videtur quod inconvenienter distinguatur actus fidei per hoc quod est credere Deo, credere Deum et credere in Deum. Unius enim habitus unus est actus. Sed fides est unus habitus, cum sit una virtus. Ergo inconvenienter ponuntur plures actus eius." It's the first part of this that's important here, the distinction between credere Deo, credere Deum, and credere in Deum. The old Dominican Fathers edition has it translated as to believe God, believe in a God, and to believe in God. The Blackfriars edition (ever loose with their translations, but perhaps better at conveying Thomas' true meaning), has "to believe God, to believe in God, to believe unto God." If you've not read much Thomas before you might expect him to choose one or another of these meanings, but he simply answers that they are all different aspects of the same act of faith, seen from different perspectives. This last idea of believing unto God actually gets at the problem with both in and eis (Greek for "in"). They both imply a movement toward something. But this is why Thomas (and perhaps all of the Church Fathers who use the term) are perfectly willing to use such a term outside of its normal grammatical construction: faith is a virtue and thus describes a type of movement itself. Thomas uses this moment to remind us (following St. Augustine's lead) that belief is understood as it is moved by the will to be assented to (i.e. we understand what we believe and then we give an assent to it: cum enim credere ad intellectum pertineat prout est a voluntate motus ad assentiendum). In this case I think that the sentence is grammatically correct, given what the Fathers wanted to say. Many of them were classically trained and use Greek and Latin forms more rigorously than even the ancients did in their own time (e.g. St. Basil the Great is better at writing Attic Greek than Plato was). Let me also add that credo + dat. normally means to believe someone, not in someone. It means that they're telling the truth. At least, this is the way that I have seen it written (which is what Thomas explains above). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 I think the grammatical construction of the creed (both in Greek and Latin) is intentional, because the "I believe in" phrase is used only in reference to the persons of Holy Trinity, and this specific usage is meant to convey the fact that a Christian believes "in" the divine persons as opposed to merely believing certain things about them. That is why that same grammatical structure is not used later in the creed when the Church is mentioned; instead, the creed simply says "and one, holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church," and this structure is meant to convey the truth that we do not "believe in" the Church, but that we believe the Church, that is, we believe what the Church teaches. The creed uses the same language for "in one, holy, catholic, and Apostolic Church" in the same format as the Trinity (eis mian agian katholicen kai apostoliken ekklesian or in unam catholicam et apostolicam ecclesiam). Only after this moment does the Greek/Latin verb switch to "I confess." St. Thomas didn't really like this part and said (ST IIa IIae Q 1, A 9, ad 5): If we say: "'In' the holy Catholic Church," this must be taken as verified in so far as our faith is directed to the Holy Ghost, Who sanctifies the Church; so that the sense is: "I believe in the Holy Ghost sanctifying the Church." But it is better and more in keeping with the common use, to omit the 'in,' and say simply, "the holy Catholic Church," as Pope Leo [Rufinus, Comm. in Sym. Apost.] observes. I think he's silly, but oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 (edited) The creed uses the same language for "in one, holy, catholic, and Apostolic Church" in the same format as the Trinity (eis mian agian katholicen kai apostoliken ekklesian or in unam catholicam et apostolicam ecclesiam). Only after this moment does the Greek/Latin verb switch to "I confess." St. Thomas didn't really like this part and said (ST IIa IIae Q 1, A 9, ad 5): I think he's silly, but oh well. That is correct about the original Greek text, but I was referencing the Latin liturgical version which reads as follow: "Et unam, sanctam, cathólicam et apostólicam Ecclésiam." There are minor modifications in both the Latin and Greek liturgical versions of the creed (e.g., the "We believe" of the bishops is replaced by "I believe" in the liturgical versions of the creed). Edited July 2, 2013 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 (edited) Anscar Chupungco O.S.B. wrote an excellent treatment of the liturgical creed (of the Latin Church) in a book edited by Edward Foley entitled, "A Commentary on the Order of Mass of the Roman Missal: New English Translation" (see the pages on the creed), which supports the notion that we do not in fact have faith in the Church, but that we believe what the Church teaches. Faith, as a divine gift. really is centered upon the Holy Trinity. Edited July 2, 2013 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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