Nihil Obstat Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anastasia13 Posted July 5, 2013 Author Share Posted July 5, 2013 What is QED? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Quod erat demonstratem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I think this is the only poll that's ever been unanimous on Phatmass. At least we know that no matter how divided we are on other things, we all agree a little bit of holy kissing before marriage is great fun. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I heard a sermon talking about how a Pope stated that it's not a venial sin to "kiss passionately" before marriage. Meaning that it's grave matter. The priest said, the only okay way to kiss before marriage is how you would kiss your grandma: just a small kiss on the cheek, etc. Not passionate kissing which would lead to more (even if in a particular case it doesn't, the purpose of inviting those feelings IS to lead to more - whether people intend to or not). I agree with that. I think - passionate kissing only for marriage yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I heard a sermon talking about how a Pope stated that it's not a venial sin to "kiss passionately" before marriage. Meaning that it's grave matter. The priest said, the only okay way to kiss before marriage is how you would kiss your grandma: just a small kiss on the cheek, etc. Not passionate kissing which would lead to more (even if in a particular case it doesn't, the purpose of inviting those feelings IS to lead to more - whether people intend to or not). I agree with that. I think - passionate kissing only for marriage yes. I heard a sermon once about how a Pope said otherwise. So, there you go. :| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 (edited) which Pope? the sermon I'm referring to is this one: http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/20060730-Review-of-Sins-Against-the-6th-and-9th-Commandments.html I heard it was Pope Alexander VII. He said that it was condemned that it's only a venial sin for the unmarried to kiss for the purpose of the sensual pleasure arriving from the kiss. I think that makes sense. It's putting oneself in an occasion of sin. I guess the question is - which Pope was giving a personal view, and which was saying more authoritatively. The priest also quoted St Alphonsus Liguori: "...every time someone with sufficient reflection and full consent of the will delights in carnal or sensual pleasure associated with to whom he is not married he commits a mortal sin. This is not only true with kisses but also with respect to other touches performed for carnal pleasure. The reason is that any delight taken in carnal pleasure, that is to say any delight taken in stirring up the appetites which surround the creative power, is a movement towards the martial act.' Close Quote. The Doctor of Moral Theology of the Universal Church." Edited July 5, 2013 by MarysLittleFlower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 The kiss of Judas was more that a greeting, even though it was the custom of the day. This is the kiss of Judas, also known (especially in art) as the Betrayal of Christ, which occurs in the Garden of Gethsemane after the "Last Supper" :unsure: uhhhhh, okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 which Pope? the sermon I'm referring to is this one: http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/20060730-Review-of-Sins-Against-the-6th-and-9th-Commandments.html I heard it was Pope Alexander VII. He said that it was condemned that it's only a venial sin for the unmarried to kiss for the purpose of the sensual pleasure arriving from the kiss. I think that makes sense. It's putting oneself in an occasion of sin. I guess the question is - which Pope was giving a personal view, and which was saying more authoritatively. The priest also quoted St Alphonsus Liguori: "...every time someone with sufficient reflection and full consent of the will delights in carnal or sensual pleasure associated with to whom he is not married he commits a mortal sin. This is not only true with kisses but also with respect to other touches performed for carnal pleasure. The reason is that any delight taken in carnal pleasure, that is to say any delight taken in stirring up the appetites which surround the creative power, is a movement towards the martial act.' Close Quote. The Doctor of Moral Theology of the Universal Church." There's something key here: They're talking about kissing because you want to get sexually aroused. That's different than kissing as an expression of the emotional love that you feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfink Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I've seen St. Alphonsus' words used as a cudgel far too many times to take people who quote him very seriously. I am very sad to say that. It also seems to make me think that St. Alphonsus didn't care about anything at all besides sex. Which I know is not true. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amppax Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 which Pope? the sermon I'm referring to is this one: http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/20060730-Review-of-Sins-Against-the-6th-and-9th-Commandments.html I heard it was Pope Alexander VII. He said that it was condemned that it's only a venial sin for the unmarried to kiss for the purpose of the sensual pleasure arriving from the kiss. I think that makes sense. It's putting oneself in an occasion of sin. I guess the question is - which Pope was giving a personal view, and which was saying more authoritatively. The priest also quoted St Alphonsus Liguori: "...every time someone with sufficient reflection and full consent of the will delights in carnal or sensual pleasure associated with to whom he is not married he commits a mortal sin. This is not only true with kisses but also with respect to other touches performed for carnal pleasure. The reason is that any delight taken in carnal pleasure, that is to say any delight taken in stirring up the appetites which surround the creative power, is a movement towards the martial act.' Close Quote. The Doctor of Moral Theology of the Universal Church." Do you know which of his works this is from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Liguori was an excellent moralist. He is notable for not being a Jansenistic rigorist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfink Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Liguori was an excellent moralist. He is notable for not being a Jansenistic rigorist. :like: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
add Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-Oz5Xmi2ew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Maybe the famed "holy kiss" is only between brother and sister, blood and water, water being brethren . I tried to give a new found friend who started coming to church (he was a lapsed christian.) i tried to kiss him on the cheek after his first rosary with me and it was a big mistake he thought i wanted to pash him. :( Good intentions can go wrong. Hence why i think possibly it's only between male and female and only those whom are close. An old lady at holy mass gave me a kiss on the cheek some time this year after i had been regular at the parish for about a year, i enjoyed that, it's an awesome way to say your welcome as a brother in Christ, way stronger than a hand shake between brothers and sisters in Christ. I also like to add and say "peace be with you." God bless. Onward christian souls. Jesus is Lord. St Paul " greet each other with a holy kiss." " they will know who you are by the way you greet each other." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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