graciandelamadrededios Posted July 14, 2013 Author Share Posted July 14, 2013 Buffalo had the "Great Veil" which they were still using when I was there. I thought it was beautiful. I would think their two foundations in Alexandria and Brooklyn still have it. I can't imagine why they would do away with it. That is interesting.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graciandelamadrededios Posted July 21, 2013 Author Share Posted July 21, 2013 I recently got a copy of "Carmel: Its History, Spirit, and Saints" compiled by The Discalced Carmelites of Boston and Santa Clara, published in 1927. It says that Pope Urban IV made the regulation that in all monasteries, each grate should be armed with points of iron. Further, it says that St. Charles of Borromeo, during the Council of Milan, approved and generalized the use of double grate as ordained by St. Francis of Paula for his religious and even designated the distance which should separate one from another. He also wished the Religious to have their faces covered with a veil before persons from without, who should be obliged to enter into the cloister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graciandelamadrededios Posted July 21, 2013 Author Share Posted July 21, 2013 Choir Grille of Manila Carmel - with Postulant and a Novice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiquitunga Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 I recently got a copy of "Carmel: Its History, Spirit, and Saints" compiled by The Discalced Carmelites of Boston and Santa Clara, published in 1927. It says that Pope Urban IV made the regulation that in all monasteries, each grate should be armed with points of iron. Further, it says that St. Charles of Borromeo, during the Council of Milan, approved and generalized the use of double grate as ordained by St. Francis of Paula for his religious and even designated the distance which should separate one from another. He also wished the Religious to have their faces covered with a veil before persons from without, who should be obliged to enter into the cloister Really interesting! Thank you for sharing that! Did it say Pope Urban wanted monasteries of all Orders to have the iron points? Thank you for sharing the picture from Manila Carmel also! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graciandelamadrededios Posted July 21, 2013 Author Share Posted July 21, 2013 Really interesting! Thank you for sharing that! Did it say Pope Urban wanted monasteries of all Orders to have the iron points? Thank you for sharing the picture from Manila Carmel also! It said all monasteries and not just Carmel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graciandelamadrededios Posted September 8, 2013 Author Share Posted September 8, 2013 Books where spikes on the Choir Grilles were featured: 1. I recently got a copy of the book "Flame of Joy: Marie-Angelique of Jesus, o.c.d." written by the Carmelites of Pontoise and translated by Mother Miriam of Jesus of Eugene Carmel and there was a photo of the choir grille with spikes. 2. Also, I saw the same spikes on the choir grille of Carmel of Reposoir upon reading the booklet in French called Le Reposoir. 3. Lastly, a friend sent me a copy of a booklet "Australia: The land of their heritage" Discalced Carmelite Nuns 1885 - 1985 published by Dulwich Hill Carmelite Monastery in Sydney, Australia, there is one photo taken in front of the choir grille with spikes - it was Mother Mary of the Holy Spirit's Golden Jubilee of Profession in 1933. All of these grilles may have been taken down and replaced with a new one since these photos were all taken after Vatican II. The custom of spikes on the grille were carried over to France by the Spanish Mothers and the French Mother introduced them to Asian and Australian Carmels. I am not sure why few American Carmels adopted this custom. I heard from one American Prioress that their Carmel never had a grille with spikes even before Vatican II and she never heard of any other American Carmels having one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graciandelamadrededios Posted September 22, 2013 Author Share Posted September 22, 2013 Welcome back, Chiqui! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiquitunga Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Welcome back, Chiqui! Thanks gracian! :like: Books where spikes on the Choir Grilles were featured: 1. I recently got a copy of the book "Flame of Joy: Marie-Angelique of Jesus, o.c.d." written by the Carmelites of Pontoise and translated by Mother Miriam of Jesus of Eugene Carmel and there was a photo of the choir grille with spikes. 2. Also, I saw the same spikes on the choir grille of Carmel of Reposoir upon reading the booklet in French called Le Reposoir. 3. Lastly, a friend sent me a copy of a booklet "Australia: The land of their heritage" Discalced Carmelite Nuns 1885 - 1985 published by Dulwich Hill Carmelite Monastery in Sydney, Australia, there is one photo taken in front of the choir grille with spikes - it was Mother Mary of the Holy Spirit's Golden Jubilee of Profession in 1933. All of these grilles may have been taken down and replaced with a new one since these photos were all taken after Vatican II. The custom of spikes on the grille were carried over to France by the Spanish Mothers and the French Mother introduced them to Asian and Australian Carmels. I am not sure why few American Carmels adopted this custom. I heard from one American Prioress that their Carmel never had a grille with spikes even before Vatican II and she never heard of any other American Carmels having one. Thanks for sharing all of this! Very interesting. Also, I'm so glad you got a copy of Flame of Joy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiquitunga Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I think you mean this one. This is from Seattle Carmel's old monastery at 1808 18th Ave., which is mentioned both in the newspaper clip here, http://www.ebay.com/itm/1950-Codd-Rev-William-J-Carmelite-Monastery-Press-Photo-/200738779921 & here, http://www.seattlecarmel.org/history.htm So we know at least one US Carmel had them and they are French. But yes, nowadays most of the Carmels that seem to still have them (besides that one in Poland you shared with me Gracian & what Manila left up & Mangalore) are Carmels in Spain, including San Jose in Avila. just thought I'd post these really quick ... some more pictures from Seattle Carmel on eBay I wonder... what if someone leaned on those spikes by accident? :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeniJesuAmorMi Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 just thought I'd post these really quick ... some more pictures from Seattle Carmel on eBay I wonder... what if someone leaned on those spikes by accident? :o Just had to comment on what beautiful pictures! The women also were dressed so nice and modestly. Thank you for sharing Chiqui! Happy feast day of Saint Therese to all! The feast day is also celebrated on Oct. 3 in the traditional calendar, so we could really celebrate both days. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graciandelamadrededios Posted October 5, 2013 Author Share Posted October 5, 2013 (edited) just thought I'd post these really quick ... some more pictures from Seattle Carmel on eBay I wonder... what if someone leaned on those spikes by accident? :o Nice photos, Chiqui! Well, this is the reason why Mother Prioress of Carmelite Monastery in Gilmore removed the spikes on their grilles shortly after Vatican II. The idea of having spikes on the grille posed danger to others and for some folks who cannot hold back their curiosity. I attended Mass at Carmel of St. Therese in Manila during the Feast Day of St. Therese of the Child Jesus and the chapel was packed with people! The Mass was presided by Archbishop Tirona, OCD and was assisted by SSS Fathers and OCD Fathers and Brothers. I noticed some white veiled Nuns (4 or 5 Novices or Simple Professed Nun) during communion and 1 postulant. This Carmel enjoys really good vocations! Manila Carmel elected a new Prioress. She used to helped a Belgian Carmel and she was about to transfer there but was elected as Prioress several years ago. Now she is, again, elected as Prioress. The former Prioress finished her two terms and can no longer be elected. Edited October 5, 2013 by graciandelamadrededios Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graciandelamadrededios Posted October 5, 2013 Author Share Posted October 5, 2013 just thought I'd post these really quick ... some more pictures from Seattle Carmel on eBay I wonder... what if someone leaned on those spikes by accident? :o Nice photos, Chiqui! Well, this is the reason why Mother Prioress of Carmelite Monastery in Gilmore removed the spikes on their grilles shortly after Vatican II. The idea of having spikes on the grille posed danger to others and for some folks who cannot hold back their curiosity. I attended Mass at Carmel of St. Therese in Manila during the Feast Day of St. Therese of the Child Jesus and the chapel was packed with people! The Mass was presided by Archbishop Tirona, OCD and was assisted by SSS Fathers and OCD Fathers and Brothers. I noticed some white veiled Nuns (4 or 5 Novices or Simple Professed Nun) during communion and 1 postulant. This Carmel enjoys really good vocations! Manila Carmel elected a new Prioress. Mother Roseanne used to helped a Belgian Carmel and she was about to transfer there but was elected as Prioress several years ago. Now she is, again, elected as Prioress. The former Prioress finished her two terms and can no longer be elected - Mother Bernard used to helped an Israeli Carmel and she learned French there since most of the Sisters are from France. Now that Mother Bernard is no longer the Prioress, she now assumes the office of a Novice Mistress. A custom they retained as mandated by St. Teresa and outlined in her Constitutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graciandelamadrededios Posted October 5, 2013 Author Share Posted October 5, 2013 The List of Discalced Carmelite Monastery of Nuns in Catholic Directory of the Philippines: http://www.bibleclaret.org/eBook/CD2002/Rel%20Women%20O-%20P%20%20p393%20-%20424.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiquitunga Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 Praised be Jesus Christ! Thanks for sharing that Gracian! I just noticed this, the Allentown Carmel (O.Carm.) has spikes, http://www.carmelite-nuns.com/Allentown_Carmelites_Photos_Community.htm p.s. a video from Benediction there, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9EozeCD2sM wish it were wider, but this is nice. they really have a beautiful chapel and high altar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reminiscere Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 That's the whole point!!! <_< The idea of having spikes on the grille posed danger to others and for some folks who cannot hold back their curiosity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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