Era Might Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) :no: Even many the earliest Christian clergy were married, following in the footsteps of the Judaic tradition. It wasn't until the 11th century that celibacy became "mandatory" (and even now you don't have to look hard to find licit priests in good standing who are married). That said, it has practice since very early on not to allow priests to marry. Just a footnote to the historical married priesthood, the early church was also very attached to the celibate ideal. It was one of the things that made them "weird" to the pagans in a way the Jews weren't. People today think of modern conceptions of relationships and marriage and imagine them in the context of the early church, but marriage in the early church was a human necessity, not the ideal (for anyone, not just priests). Of course, the monks and bishops and martyrs and ascetics were the "face" of the church, and the people were not necessarily as "hardcore" as them, but asceticism was central to the original christian communities in a way it is not today. Edited June 28, 2013 by Era Might Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cappie Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Why is everyone ignoring the "stealing consecrated hosts and giving them to Satanists" part? In my opinion, that's an even greater crime. The excommunication threatened against those who take the consecrated species for a sacrilegious purpose is latae sententiae (1983 CIC 1367) Both are bad and whether the other should also be the subject for excommunication is a point of discussion. Certainly in the case of clerics the canonical penalties are extensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 :no: Even many the earliest Christian clergy were married, following in the footsteps of the Judaic tradition. It wasn't until the 11th century that celibacy became "mandatory" (and even now you don't have to look hard to find licit priests in good standing who are married). That said, it has practice since very early on not to allow priests to marry. Apparently I was ill-informed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To Jesus Through Mary Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) The follow up video with a bit more info... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCuk2HJ37VQ&feature=player_embedded#at=280 Edited June 28, 2013 by To Jesus Through Mary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Why do people like Voris seem to thrive on scandal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 :no: Even many the earliest Christian clergy were married, following in the footsteps of the Judaic tradition. It wasn't until the 11th century that celibacy became "mandatory" (and even now you don't have to look hard to find licit priests in good standing who are married). That said, it has practice since very early on not to allow priests to marry. psst, the smilie for no is : nono : :nono: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) Delivery Boy, I'm noticing a distinct "theme" in your posts across the Phorum. I wish you'd keep that stuff to yourself. It is making me uncomfortable, and I've no doubt some of the other ladies here feel the same. I'm not even a lady and I feel uncomfortable... Edited June 28, 2013 by FuturePriest387 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Why do people like Voris seem to thrive on scandal? All reporters thrive on scandal. "People like Voris" is a little bit snarky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 It's not snarky at all. 'Voris and others' would have meant the same thing. I just meant there is a certain type of person who seems to thrive on scandal, and I believe Voris is of that ilk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To Jesus Through Mary Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I have been giving this scandal a great deal of thought and prayer. To see how vast and deep this problem is. The gay lobby, the sex scandal here and abroad, the amount of gay priests in seminaries and dioceses across the world, and all the other problems we are too aware of... how did this happen to the Church? I mean this obviously has been going on for a long time... but how did this all start and when? I know there might not be any really answers, but I would be curious to here some of your thoughts on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfink Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I have been giving this scandal a great deal of thought and prayer. To see how vast and deep this problem is. The gay lobby, the sex scandal here and abroad, the amount of gay priests in seminaries and dioceses across the world, and all the other problems we are too aware of... how did this happen to the Church? I mean this obviously has been going on for a long time... but how did this all start and when? I know there might not be any really answers, but I would be curious to here some of your thoughts on this? I don't think this is quite exactly a "new" problem. Homosexuality certainly isn't a new problem. I think that not enough attention is being paid in priestly formation to proper instruction in sexual ethics and theology of the body perhaps. Or with the Church in the US as a whole. It's also possible that, rather than targeting specifically those who have a homosexual inclination, it might be better to look for people who are unwilling or unable to be masters of their own disordered desires. Everyone has disordered desires, it's called original sin. Even our priests. So I suppose it's not much surprise to me that this kind of thing happens. I can say that I see certain trends in society and the Church which would make priesthood a more appealing option for a man with same sex attraction. Just from a practical standpoint, if the Church is going to call homosexual men to be celibate, I can see why many of them would decide that being a priest might not be a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Vinny Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Exciting time to be returning. :shock: Seriously, though, the hospital analogy earlier was spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I have been giving this scandal a great deal of thought and prayer. To see how vast and deep this problem is. The gay lobby, the sex scandal here and abroad, the amount of gay priests in seminaries and dioceses across the world, and all the other problems we are too aware of... how did this happen to the Church? I mean this obviously has been going on for a long time... but how did this all start and when? I know there might not be any really answers, but I would be curious to here some of your thoughts on this? Right now, in my Protestant Christianity class, we're covering the Western Schism with all the popes at once, and the biggest criticism that started the avalanche that became the Protestant Reformation seems to me to be criticism of immoral lifestyles of the hierarchy. There have been problems with wildly immoral priests, bishops, and even popes for centuries. It seems to me that the more temporal power was given to bishops, the more opportunities they had to screw up and abuse it. With it comes an attitude of moral superiority, or that they're just doing things for everyone else's own good, and then the fear of losing trust or moral authority when someone finds out that terrible things did happen, so you have the efforts to cover it up. There were also sentiments that the laity basically wasn't worth much among some people, while the clergy and religious were. I mean, the special mission of the laity to evangelize the world really wasn't articulated until Vatican II. Before, the laity might have participated in the bishop's mission to evangelize the world. Everything is there in our history. We brought this on ourselves, and now we have to try again to turn away from sin. I think the solution is a renewed emphasis on priests and bishops as humble pastors first, and I think Francis is doing just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cappie Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) I have been giving this scandal a great deal of thought and prayer. To see how vast and deep this problem is. The gay lobby, the sex scandal here and abroad, the amount of gay priests in seminaries and dioceses across the world, and all the other problems we are too aware of... how did this happen to the Church? I mean this obviously has been going on for a long time... but how did this all start and when? I know there might not be any really answers, but I would be curious to here some of your thoughts on this? There is enough Franciscanism in me to believe that we are all created in the image and likeness of God though the effects of our Original Sin still trouble us, so I am not suprised by events, along with St Bonaventure (Bonaventure considers the human as both the completion and consummation of God’s work of creation) and Blessed John Duns Scotus,( who disagreed with St Thomas Aquinas' emphasis on sin). Indeed, Duns Scotus boldly proclaimed and defended the primacy of the Incarnation. He based his view on the Scriptures and early theologians and on logic. He argued, for example, that God's supreme work, the Incarnation, had to be first and foremost in God's mind. It could not be dependent on or occasioned by any action of humans, especially sin. Even more than logic, Duns Scotus emphasized divine love. God is love and created all life in order to communicate to creatures the fullness of divine love. The Incarnate Word is the foundation of the creative plan of God, the very reason for the existence of all creation. This emphasis on Christ as the center and cornerstone of all creation has become an essential dimension of Franciscan life and ministry. I believe God the Father loved us so much and saw us as good that even if our first parents had not sinned he would have sent his only begotten son. But also I have some of St Augustine (and St Thomas Aquinas!) so I can also say that all people are fallen and broken; all our desires are warped and twisted out of their proper shape; my sexuality is objectively disordered, and - I trust and pray - being reordered by God’s Spirit at work in my life. Edited June 29, 2013 by cappie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Wednesday Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Alright guys I'm just sayin....This is too much...lol I'll still be Catholic but the guilt trip factor is over...I won't let that be involved in my life anymore....All this if I masturbate I'm going to hell even though I haven't had sex in 5 years...And I'm not claiming to be pure by any means but I sure as hell don't have nothing to do with a prostituion ring involving minors...Who does that ?? Haha wow.....alright I'm going to sleep...Night and Godbless..... We can't use the failings of others to give ourselves a pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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