Did The Catholic Church Officially Teach Geocentrism?

[dairygirl4u2c]

did the catholic church teach that the earth was the center of the universe?

 

i see some catholics who even hold to it, despite the facts, in their attempt to adhere to church teaching. 

 

i see some informing information here...

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=123029

 

 

interview with a geocentrist...
"Jacob: Which popes condemned heliocentrism as a heresy?

Robert: Paul V and Urban VIII had accepted and approved of the Sacred Congregations condemnation of heliocentrism. In fact, when St. Robert Bellarmine wrote his condemnation to Galileo, he used the plural "we condemn" and then stated that the condemnation had the approval of "his holiness," the reigning pontiff, Paul V, in 1616. After Bellarmine dealt again with Galileo under Pope Urban VIII in 1633, then again in 1667 Pope Alexander VII condemned heliocentrism in a papal bull, with his name signed to the bull.

Jacob: Do you have the names of those documents on hand?

Robert: The papal bull of Alexander VII was titled Speculatores Domus Israel. The condemnation by St. Robert Bellarmine, approved by the pope, was first written on May 26, 1616, from the office of the Sacred Congregation."
https://sites.google.com/site/sungenisandthejews/interview-with-a-geocentrist

[dairygirl4u2c]

As for the Bull:
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catholic Truths

15 years later, a Papal Bull was written which probably did more than the prevous declarations. Alexander VII created the Index Librorum Prohibitorum Alexandri VII Pontificis Maximi jussu editus. Unlike many Indices of the past, he created a Papal Bull, Speculatores Dominus Israel, to which he explicitly attached:

1. ...Tridentine and Clementine Indices...
2. ...all the relevant decrees up to the present time, that have been issued since the Index of our predecessor Clement...
3. ...also the rules of the Tridentine Index, with the observations and instructions added to the Clementine Index, have been prefixed...

Of these explicitly attached documents, he stated in the Bull:

...which we will should be considered as though it were inserted in these presents, together with all, and singular, the things contained therein...

He then stated , explicitly in the Bull:

...having taken the advice of our Cardinals, confirm, and approve with Apostolic authority by the tenor of these presents, and: command and enjoin all persons everywhere to yield this Index a constant and complete obedience...

First, attaching the entire Index to a Bull and approving it with Apostolic authority carries significant weight in itself. Then, attaching previous Indexes, confirming them and approving them with Apostolic authority only adds more weight. But, more important is point '2' , attaching ...all the relevant decrees up to the present time, that have been issued since the Index of our predecessor Clement... AND confirm[ing], and approv[ing] with Apostolic authority. What does this include? According to Father Roberts (The Pontifical Decree Against the Doctrine of the Earth's Movement, 1885):

1. The decree of Paul V: ...And because it has also come to attention of the aforementioned Sacred Congregation that the Pythagorean doctrineconcerning the mobility of the earth and the immobility of the sun, which Nicholas Copernicus, De revolutionibus orbium coelestium . . . taught, and which is false and altogether incompatible with divine Scripture...

2. the “monitum” of 1620, declaring the principles advocated by Copernicus on the position and movement of the earth to be “repugnant to Scripture and to its true and catholic interpretation".

Plus a few other items dealing with Kepler's writings, Galileo's Dialogue, etc.


Many Catholic apologists want to pass off this series of events as non-doctrinal because either "it is only disciplinary" or it is "prudential judgement", etc. I believe they are ignoring the Fathers, the Scriptures (as interpered by the Fathers), as well as the repeated and consistent actions of three popes. Cardinal Ratzinger had this to say in Donum Veritatis...

 

[dairygirl4u2c]

a monitum, is a letter to a cleric, not a teaching of the church per the last post. but im still discerning this issue overall. 

[Apotheoun]

I wouldn't really worry about this if I were you. Not everything that a pope writes is necessarily true.

[jim111]

It is possible for non infalliable teaching to be error.
As far as the teachings of the fathers, the council of Trent teaches that we can not reject the unanimous teachings of the fathers. This is not unaminous among the fathers.

[Tufsoles]

I second Apptheoun.

[dairygirl4u2c]

if faith means, what should be believed, and morals is how one ought to act.... it's seem the following is at least debateably a matter of faith and moral, these contradictory papal bulls. 

 

1569- papal bull Habraeorum Gens Sola restricts jews in the Papal States to rome and ancona
1586- papal bull Christiana Pietas revokes it
1592- papal bull Caeca et obdurata reverses Christiana Pietas, restricting the jews all over again
 

1120- Sicut Judaeis states that jews should be treated with respect, noting 'The Jews ought to suffer no prejudice."
1555- Cum Nimis Absurdum states that they should be restricted to ghettos and made to identify themselves, as well as banning them from many occupations, stating that their 'guilt has condemned them to eternal slavery'

 

[Apotheoun]

Faith concerns that which has been divinely revealed, and I do not think where Jews may and may not live is a divinely revealed truth; and morals concerns those acts that conform to the natural law (i.e., to the logos of man's nature) as determined by the exercise of right reason. 

 

None of those papal documents appears to concern matters of divine faith, but some of them (and I say this without actually having read the documents in question) may fall into the moral sphere since it appears that they may concern treating others with the respect due to them as creatures created in the image of God. That said, most of the documents - at least based upon the summaries given - appear to be of a political nature, and no one ever said that the popes would be consistent when it comes to acting as secular rulers in the papal states.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Apotheoun

[Dr. Bombay]

Can someone actually prove to me that the earth revolves around the sun? Cuz from where I sit, the sun looks like it's moving to me.

Yeah, I didn't think so.

 

The earth looks pretty flat too.  Any proof it's round?  Any?

Uh huh.  That's what I thought.

Go back to talking amongst yourselves.

[Laudate_Dominum]

Heliocentrism: The God That Failed.

[Nihil Obstat]

:smile3:

[dairygirl4u2c]

"Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

 

[Apotheoun]

I thought this thread was about geocentrism.

[Dr. Bombay]

Anyone have any proof that gravity exists?  Has the Magisterium infallibly pronounced on this issue?

 

Can I please have a definitive dogmatic statement that it actually gets dark once the sun sets?  Because I've been struggling with this issue, every night even.

 

And what about rain?  Have any of the 21 ecumenical Councils issued a pronouncement that rain is really wet?

Well?  What about it Catholics? 

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Planet Earth is the center of the universe, the beginning. Introduce me to an alien from another planet and i will be proven otherwise.I believe that it is possible, with grace, that we will venture to other habitable planets and multiply till we number more than the stars.

Edited June 29, 2013 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye