This Is What Being American Is All About

[Anastasia13]

At the risk of being labeled a Leftist––something I'm most certainly not (I don't take geographical sides/directions either), I would like to say something with genuine sincerity…

 

I just don't understand this southern “heritage” that delights in the Confederate flag. Everyone who flies a Confederate flag was born in the United States of America--not in the Confederacy. The 13 colonies were under British rule and flew the British flag but why would an American today fly a British flag (excluding 1st or 2nd generation immigrants from Britain)? That would be absurd, right?

 

While it is true that the federal government doesn't have a right to invade states which do have a right to self govern, states do not have the right to dehumanize human beings. The federal government was right in its exercise of force.

 

Like it or not, the Confederate flag is associated with slavery, though perhaps not intrinsically associated with it. There may be a line between racist heritage and a purer form of heritage but flying a Confederate flag always---always requires an explanation upfront. What heritage is being represented? What does this heritage consist of? How on earth can a Confederate flag have any relevance for any one in today's day and age, other than racists? I would genuinely like to know.

 

I'm not just an American: I'm a California. Deal with it.
 

Edited June 26, 2013 by Light and Truth

[Seven77]

I'm not just an American: I'm a California. Deal with it.
 

 

No. I am America and so can you. Deal with THAT, sister!!!

[Basilisa Marie]

I think there's a big problem with the way we treat southern pride in our country.  The Confederate flag is a source of southern pride AND is a deeply offensive symbol of racism for many people. It's not the left or the right that makes it that way. There's nothing we can do to change that, it means both.  If it were up to me, I wouldn't encourage people to fly the Confederate flag, because of those mixed meanings.  But all society does is tell people in the South that they should be ashamed of their heritage, ashamed to feel any pride in their culture and where they come from.  And that's not right.  Society tells people they can't display certain symbols of cultural pride, but then doesn't give them anything to use instead.  So what are people supposed to do? No WONDER so many people fight over the real meaning of the Confederate flag.  

Like I said before, we've tried to do a lot of "diversity" education, especially in schools, but it's severely flawed.  If I were a white Protestant guy from the South I'd feel like I'd have nothing to be proud of, only shame.  In order for it to work it has to give ALL people the tools to be proud of their heritage in a way that doesn't hurt anyone else. 

[Anastasia13]

No. I am America and so can you. Deal with THAT, sister!!!

How cute? You're trying to Colbert reply me.

 

[url=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/desertsands/media/Colbert/index.png.html][/URL]

[dUSt]

[Gabriela]

 

THIS is America, folks.

[Seven77]

How cute? You're trying to Colbert reply me.

 

 

 

Yeah...heh..."trying to."  :pinch:

[Seven77]

THIS is America, folks.

 

What is? Duck Commander? Maybe… if you live in Texas or the Everglades.

 

Wait… nevermind. :)

[CatholicsAreKewl]

SHALL NOT PREVAIL. 

 

Are both of your kids already on wax?

[KnightofChrist]

At the risk of being labeled a Leftist––something I'm most certainly not (I don't take geographical sides/directions either), I would like to say something with genuine sincerity…

 

I just don't understand this southern “heritage” that delights in the Confederate flag. Everyone who flies a Confederate flag was born in the United States of America--not in the Confederacy. The 13 colonies were under British rule and flew the British flag but why would an American today fly a British flag (excluding 1st or 2nd generation immigrants from Britain)? That would be absurd, right?

 

While it is true that the federal government doesn't have a right to invade states which do have a right to self govern, states do not have the right to dehumanize human beings. The federal government was right in its exercise of force.

 

Like it or not, the Confederate flag is associated with slavery, though perhaps not intrinsically associated with it. There may be a line between racist heritage and a purer form of heritage but flying a Confederate flag always---always requires an explanation upfront. What heritage is being represented? What does this heritage consist of? How on earth can a Confederate flag have any relevance for any one in today's day and age, other than racists? I would genuinely like to know.

 

What about the Flag of the United States? Why does it always get a pass that the Confederate battle flag does not receive? Surely you know enough about history and present day events to know that it could just as easily be associated with far greater crimes and sins against humanity than the South ever committed.

 

Because I fly the US flag doesn't mean I support the Abortion Holocaust, dropping nukes on civilian populations, internment camps, lust, greed, envy, or any number of sins and crimes that have happened under the Flag of the United States. And no I shouldn't have to offer a upfront explanation. For Southerners the Confederate battle flag is a symbol of our heritage, it is not about slavery, it is more about our forefathers who died, not for slavery, but for their brothers in arms and their families. Northerners/Yankees don't see willing to understand or respect that, and that is a shame.

 

Edited June 26, 2013 by KnightofChrist

[Seven77]

What about the Flag of the United States? Why does it always get a pass that the Confederate battle flag does not receive? Surely you know enough about history and present day events to know that it could just as easily be associated with far greater crimes and sins against humanity than the South ever committed.

 

Because I fly the US flag doesn't mean I support the Abortion Holocaust, dropping nukes on civilian populations, internment camps, lust, greed, envy, or any number of sins and crimes that have happened under the Flag of the United States. And no I shouldn't have to offer a upfront explanation. For Southerners the Confederate battle flag is a symbol of our heritage, it is not about slavery, it is more about our forefathers who died, not for slavery, but for their brothers in arms and their families. Northerners/Yankees don't see willing to understand or respect that, and that is a shame.

 

Ironically you have offered an explanation justifying the use of the Confederate flag.  So, the flag is about honoring your forefathers who died. I can definitely understand that. Thanks-- because you have offered an explanation I can better understand where you're coming from-- but if you changed your avatar to a Confederate flag without offering an explanation rest assured that I would think you were a racist. That's the truth right there.

[Basilisa Marie]

Nvm.

 

 

Edited June 26, 2013 by Basilisa Marie

[Seven77]

 And the United States wasn't founded on keeping abortion legal  as one of its tenants. If it were--then of course I would have a problem with the flag of the United States of America. Bad analogy.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Seven77

[Socrates]

At the risk of being labeled a Leftist––something I'm most certainly not (I don't take geographical sides/directions either), I would like to say something with genuine sincerity…

 

I just don't understand this southern “heritage” that delights in the Confederate flag. Everyone who flies a Confederate flag was born in the United States of America--not in the Confederacy. The 13 colonies were under British rule and flew the British flag but why would an American today fly a British flag (excluding 1st or 2nd generation immigrants from Britain)? That would be absurd, right?

 

While it is true that the federal government doesn't have a right to invade states which do have a right to self govern, states do not have the right to dehumanize human beings. The federal government was right in its exercise of force.

 

Like it or not, the Confederate flag is associated with slavery, though perhaps not intrinsically associated with it. There may be a line between racist heritage and a purer form of heritage but flying a Confederate flag always---always requires an explanation upfront. What heritage is being represented? What does this heritage consist of? How on earth can a Confederate flag have any relevance for any one in today's day and age, other than racists? I would genuinely like to know.

 

I wouldn't go so far as to label you a "Leftist" - more of an ignorant Yankee, maybe.  

 

First, you've got your history wrong.  The Union troops did not initially invade the South to liberate the slaves, as emancipation was not an original Union objective.  The Confederate states were fighting for the right to secede from the Union, while the North was fighting to preserve the Union.  Thus, I would not say the military aggression of the Northern states against the South was morally right.  I suppose we could probably argue for weeks about whether the Southern states have a right to secede - I say they did - but that argument's been going on for well over 150 years, and was resolved only by force of arms.  Personally, I don't think preserving a political union is worth military aggression and immense bloodshed and destruction.

 

Most Southern whites were not slave owners, and many in the South were not fighting for slavery, but to defend their homeland, and the right of states to be free of federal tyranny.  There were in fact free black men who willingly fought for the South (I saw an article about a proud black Confederate war reenactor whose ancestors fought for the Confederacy), not to mention many American Indians (whose rights certainly were not respected by the federal government).

I'd recommend reading a good biography of Robert E. Lee or Stonewall Jackson, or at least watching the excellent film Gods and Generals, to better understand the Southern cause.

 

For most people displaying the Confederate flag today, the reason is primary a Southern pride thing (Yankees wouldn't understand), and is a celebration of regional patriotism and heritage and love for Ol' Dixie (if you think there's nothing to Southern heritage and culture but racism and slavery, I recommend reading 1001 Things Everyone Should Know About the South, a very entertaining and informative read which covers everything Southern from the sublime to the ridiculous). It's also out of respect and honor for all those who fought, bled, and died to defend their homeland and what they believed in.  For some conservatives like myself, it's also about states' rights/small government and standing up against the federal leviathon.  It can also be about plain "rebel spirit" - or maybe it just means you're a Skynyrd fan.

 

There's a difference between flying a British flag and the Confederate flag, in that the American colonies were fighting for independence from British rule, while the Southern states were fighting from independence from the Union - but I have in fact seen Americans display the Union Jack on clothes, vehicles, and in business establishments - and it's certainly nothing to freak out about.  It usually means they think Britain or British stuff is cool, or maybe they're just fans of the Stones or the Who.  Lots of people of Irish heritage also display Irish flags in honor of their heritage, and so on.

 

Displaying the Confederate flag today has nothing to do with wanting a return to slavery, anymore than flying Old Glory necessarily means one approves of all the various evils done by Americans or the U.S. government through history (including the atrocities committed by the Union against Southern civilians and their land during the war and so-called Reconstruction).

[Socrates]

I think there's a big problem with the way we treat southern pride in our country.  The Confederate flag is a source of southern pride AND is a deeply offensive symbol of racism for many people. It's not the left or the right that makes it that way. There's nothing we can do to change that, it means both.  If it were up to me, I wouldn't encourage people to fly the Confederate flag, because of those mixed meanings.  But all society does is tell people in the South that they should be ashamed of their heritage, ashamed to feel any pride in their culture and where they come from.  And that's not right.  Society tells people they can't display certain symbols of cultural pride, but then doesn't give them anything to use instead.  So what are people supposed to do? No WONDER so many people fight over the real meaning of the Confederate flag.  

Like I said before, we've tried to do a lot of "diversity" education, especially in schools, but it's severely flawed.  If I were a white Protestant guy from the South I'd feel like I'd have nothing to be proud of, only shame.  In order for it to work it has to give ALL people the tools to be proud of their heritage in a way that doesn't hurt anyone else. 

 

The Confederate flag (as well as monuments to Confederate generals and war heroes) were not generally regarded as deeply offensive symbols of racism until fairly recently.  They became such mostly because people chose to become offended by them, and regard them as symbols of racism or "hate."  Not all black people are offended by the flag.

 

In this age of political correctness, people are increasingly deciding to become "deeply offended" by many things not previously considered offensive, including any Christian symbol, and there are some who even find the American flag offensive.  (A kid in a heavily-hispanic southwestern school was even sent home for wearing a shirt with an American flag on Cinco de Mayo.)

 

 

Also, I think people should choose for themselves what symbols of cultural pride to use - rather than "society" (presumably meaning government institutions and schools, mass-media, and other politically-correct opinion makers) telling everybody what symbols are acceptable and not.

To hell with "diversity education" and political correctness.