Clarity Please

[Quietfire]

I am in a debate of sorts with someone who claims they are not from the U.S. and as a result, I am finding it difficult to converse with her since our biggest problem is language.

She says on the one hand things like vicious vulgatha...and on the other that she is friends with the Pope and just blesses them all. (???)

She says on the one hand that some have changed certain words in scripture and on the other it sounds as though its ok when she changes certain things in posts to misrepresent what you are trying to say.

Now, I kindof already know that the usual answer is something along the lines of (forgive me)
Why bother.
She obviously has no idea what she is talking about.
Let it go.

and so forth. You see, it isnt that easy. I choose to fight this war, so to speak. Something here really irkes me and I cannot figure it out.
I have asked for clarity on many postings and ....nothing. Or worse yet, she claims she already explained it and it is my responsibility to figure it out, only for me to be left scratching my head because I cannot figure out where she clarified it.

On top of that, there are those who claim they understand her completely, or at least are coming to the realization of understanding her completely. And this fustrates me more. I know I am new at all this, but I am not an idiot. The words she uses are deliberate (some have compared her posts to parables) and are 'meant' to confuse those who dont know the truth.

I guess my question is..
Is there anything wrong for asking for clarity.
I do know that Jesus spoke in parables, but if I am not mistaken, that was a very common thing in his day, and people understood them. He would also teach his disciples separately so that they had an even fuller understanding of his parables, so that they wouldnt be tainted, or changed.

Thanks.

[phatcatholic]

quietfire,

in a debate, it is always important to be as clear and concise as possible. its difficult to refute what you don't understand. i think your request is a reasonable one. the fact that she is unwilling to comply speaks of a lack of charity on her part. also, w/o reading the debate for myself, i got the impression that she likes the audience when she is debating, so she puts on a little show w/ her clever words and ambigious meaning. plus, in debate forums, some people feel like they have this big reputation to uphold so they don't comply w/ the simplest of requests and they [i]definitely [/i]won't admit it when they are wrong.

so, you do have a tough one on ur hands here. if you two are the primary players in the debate, then it will be harder to just "exit stage left." but, if others are engaging her primarily and you are just offering additional comments, then you may want to consider just leaving it in the hands of others. i guess what i'm suggesting here is for you to gage how easy it would be to bow out of the convo.

of course, you could just as easily stick it out. if that is what you decide to do then you must remember a few things:

--charity
--patience
--prayer

those three are so important. remember that even tho this person frustrates you to no end, she is still a child of God. also, it is critical that--as a catholic--you always take the higher ground. present yourself as above everything uncharitable. also, don't forget that you have many tools at ur disposal to help u w/ this debate. you have the entire reference section here at phatmass. you also have dictionary.com, which u can use to look up words that are confusing to you. a good thing about internet debates is that you don't have to rely on the information you have been able to retain..........you can instead rely on the wealth of information that is available to you on the net.

i hope this helps........and i've probably given u more of a response here then u were looking for!

pax christi,
phatcatholic

[Quietfire]

that was a wonderful response, phatcatholic.
I am the only person 'debating' her. So if I bow out, then I dare say she will only concentrate more on those who understand her, who by the way, are not involved in the debate.

I'm not even sure if I would call it a debate. Since she posts her 'info' and I ask for clarity and she continues to post while at the same time telling me she already clarified something, I dont quite see the debate there.
How do you debate something when you dont understand something? Or better yet, how do you debate something when you think she means something but its clear she is not 'saying' it (for fear of being judgemental) but you dont want to say it because you fall into the trap of being judgemental?

You ask for clarity right?
Then you're right back at square one again.
Like I asked a question and made a statement to one of her posts, I realized after the fact that I had made a mistake, but I left it to see if she would specifically respond to my 'accusation'. She didnt. Someone else did, someone who wasnt in the debate for a long time, like months. I tried to engage her, since it was apparent she understood this person and I didnt, but she just told me to be patient and I would understand. She told me rather, to listen to the posts and not the person posting, then I would understand.

I cant bow out of this 'debate'. I wish I could, but it isnt that easy. There is more there than meets the eye, if ya know what I mean.

Thanks for your response.

Peace.

Edited June 1, 2004 by Quietfire

[phatcatholic]

quietfire,

well, i can tell you that i have had the very same experience in a debate here at phatmass. i tried as hard as i could to understand her, but i could never quite figure out why she was saying what she was saying. it was like she wasn't even reading my words.........or she was reading them and not comprehending them. anyway, eventually i got so frustrated that i knew that if i were to continue, i would start to respond to her uncharitably. i had already begun to think of her in an uncharitable way. so, for the sake of charity, i just bowed out of the debate. i told her i could not discuss this any further.

a much nicer way to say it--and a way that is also very true--is to simply say that sometimes the styles in which people write or the ways in which they explain themselves are contradictory. my apologetics style did not fit hers, so to speak. so, after acknowledging the obstacle we had to overcome from the beginning as well as the foundation of charity (which was beginning to erode) i decided that it was best to discontinue.

of course, you can always encourage other people to engage her in the debate, and you should also provide information (or links to information) on the topic at hand, so she can still learn more about your stance and where u are coming from.

anyway, that is what i did. it is a possibility for you too.

just something to think about..........pax christi,
phatcatholic