Priests Demand Pelosi Renounce Catholicism After Abortion Is €œsacred

[ToJesusMyHeart]

Doesn't her obstinate support and encouragement for abortion rights fall under the heresy of the truth that human life is sacred from conception to natural death and abortion is a grave sin? She adamantly denies both those claims. Is that not heresy (thus automatic excommunication)??

 

I'm genuinely confused and not just being difficult. It seems to me like her promotion of abortion and denial of the dignity of the unborn constitutes heresy against one of the most profound truths of the Faith.

 

 

 

 

[Chestertonian]

 Being excommunicated from the Catholic Church is widely misunderstood: It doesn't mean that you're banned from church and stripped of your Catholicism. Rather, excommunication is a strong, remedial penalty meted out with the hope that it'll wake you up and move you to true repentance — and back into full communion with the faithful. In short, it's reversible.

 

Excommunication is the most severe form of ecclesiastical penalty and is used only as an absolute last resort. Excommunicants remain Catholic because of baptism and still obligated to attend Mass, but they are deprived of all sacraments (except for the Sacrament of Penance). For example, you can go to Mass but not receive the Holy Eucharist. The excommunicated are forbidden from employment or holding any position of authority in a diocese or parish. They are also deprived of a Catholic burial.

 

The following offenses warrant excommunication as a result of a judgment from a church authority:

    Pretended celebration of the Holy Eucharist (Mass) or conferral of sacramental absolution by one not a priest

    Violation of confessional seal by interpreter and others

 

Some excommunications, however, are automatic (effective at the moment the act is committed) and without the intervention of the Church. Catholics are automatically excommunicated for committing these offenses:

    Procuring of abortion

    Apostasy: The total rejection of the Christian faith.

    Heresy: The obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth, which must be believed with divine and Catholic faith.

    Schism: The rejection of the authority and jurisdiction of the pope as head of the Church.

    Desecration of sacred species (Holy Communion)

    Physical attack on the pope

    Sacramental absolution of an accomplice in sin against the Sixth and Ninth Commandments

    Unauthorized episcopal (bishop) consecration

    Direct violation of confessional seal by confessor

 

 In short, a person must be old enough, knowledgeable enough, and free enough in his or her action to incur the full weight of such a penalty.

 

Unless the local ordinary or an ecclesiastical court finds that the offense in question occurred, the obligation to observe an automatic excommunication lies solely on the excommunicated (Can. 1331 §1).

 

The local bishop has the authority to remove most excommunications, but many bishops delegate this power to all their parish priests when it involves a penitent confessing the mortal sin of abortion. This way, the person going to confession can simultaneously have the sin absolved and the excommunication lifted. This is to make it easier for people to go to confession and reconcile themselves with God and the Church, especially after a very emotional, personal, and serious matter, such as abortion.

 

Some excommunications, however, are so serious that only the pope or his delegate can remove the penalty. For example, if someone desecrates (shows irreverence to) the Holy Eucharist, only the pope can remove that excommunication. Likewise, if a priest attempts to absolve someone guilty of breaking the Sixth or Ninth Commandment with whom he himself participated in that sexual sin, his excommunication is automatic and reserved to Rome. So, too, a bishop who ordains a priest to the order of bishop without prior orders from the pope is automatically excommunicated, and only the pope can remove that excommunication, which applies equally to the ordaining bishop and the bishop being ordained.

 

If Pelosi was a parishioner of yours, Father, would you deny her the Eucharist?

 

[Basilisa Marie]

Doesn't her obstinate support and encouragement for abortion rights fall under the heresy of the truth that human life is sacred from conception to natural death and abortion is a grave sin? She adamantly denies both those claims. Is that not heresy (thus automatic excommunication)??

 

I'm genuinely confused and not just being difficult. It seems to me like her promotion of abortion and denial of the dignity of the unborn constitutes heresy against one of the most profound truths of the Faith.

 

I think the problem is that the situation is complicated, because she's not exactly encouraging a specific person to go get an abortion, or saying that everyone needs to get abortions.  Technically, what she's doing is saying that people have the "right" to get an abortion.  But on the other hand, she's a public figure, so she has a greater responsibility to represent Catholic teaching, especially because she's so public about her Catholic faith.  Maybe it'd be different if she kept her religious beliefs private.  Or maybe it wouldn't, I don't know.  

 

I do hope her bishop is talking with her.  Isn't she under his jurisdiction, so it's up to him to "take care of" her situation?  Are other bishops putting pressure on him to do something about it?  

[Gabriela]

Some excommunications, however, are automatic (effective at the moment the act is committed) and without the intervention of the Church. Catholics are automatically excommunicated for committing these offenses:

    Procuring of abortion

    Apostasy: The total rejection of the Christian faith.

    Heresy: The obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth, which must be believed with divine and Catholic faith.

    Schism: The rejection of the authority and jurisdiction of the pope as head of the Church.

    Desecration of sacred species (Holy Communion)

    Physical attack on the pope

    Sacramental absolution of an accomplice in sin against the Sixth and Ninth Commandments

    Unauthorized episcopal (bishop) consecration

    Direct violation of confessional seal by confessor

 

In short, a person must be old enough, knowledgeable enough, and free enough in his or her action to incur the full weight of such a penalty.

 

Unless the local ordinary or an ecclesiastical court finds that the offense in question occurred, the obligation to observe an automatic excommunication lies solely on the excommunicated (Can. 1331 §1).

 

Oh boy. If that is the case, then you would think that Catholics should be a lot better educated about excommunication than we are!

 

I, too, am curious to hear your responses to the other questions asked, Father. I add a couple to them:

 

1) Can the sin of procuring an abortion only result in excommunication for a woman? Or if a man pressures or forces a woman to submit to abortion, is he also guilty of the sin of "procuring" an abortion?

 

2) Why the Sixth and Ninth Commandments? Why not the Fifth?

 

And I just want to say, Father, that I've noticed you posting a lot more often recently, and I am really glad to see it! :-)

[ToJesusMyHeart]

I do hope her bishop is talking with her.  Isn't she under his jurisdiction, so it's up to him to "take care of" her situation?  Are other bishops putting pressure on him to do something about it?  

 

I dunno, but they ought to. And he ought to.

[Maggyie]

Doesn't her obstinate support and encouragement for abortion rights fall under the heresy of the truth that human life is sacred from conception to natural death and abortion is a grave sin? She adamantly denies both those claims. Is that not heresy (thus automatic excommunication)??

 

I'm genuinely confused and not just being difficult. It seems to me like her promotion of abortion and denial of the dignity of the unborn constitutes heresy against one of the most profound truths of the Faith.

 

I don't think Pelosi's argument is that human life isn't sacred or that abortion isn't a grave sin. Her argument is it shouldn't be against the civil law for people to commit this grave sin - it's in the same category as lying or adultery for her. When really it should be in the same category as rape.

 

From what I understand this puts her in the horrible human being category, but not in the heretic category.
 

[KnightofChrist]

I think the problem is that the situation is complicated, because she's not exactly encouraging a specific person to go get an abortion, or saying that everyone needs to get abortions. Technically, what she's doing is saying that people have the "right" to get an abortion. But on the other hand, she's a public figure, so she has a greater responsibility to represent Catholic teaching, especially because she's so public about her Catholic faith. Maybe it'd be different if she kept her religious beliefs private. Or maybe it wouldn't, I don't know.

I do hope her bishop is talking with her. Isn't she under his jurisdiction, so it's up to him to "take care of" her situation? Are other bishops putting pressure on him to do something about it?

With respect I'm afraid it isn't actually complex, she is a lawmaker, was speaker of the house, remains head of her party in the house, she has direct involvement in the creation and passage of laws that allow the 'legal' murder of children. She has also been directly involved in helping fund abortion, and has been directly involved in preventing pro life bills to become law. Edited June 22, 2013 by KnightofChrist

[Basilisa Marie]

With respect I'm afraid it isn't actually complex, she is a lawmaker, was speaker of the house, remains head of her party in the house, she has direct involvement in the creation and passage of laws that allow the 'legal' murder of children. She has also been directly involved in helping fund abortion, and has been directly involved in preventing pro life bills to become law.

 

I'm not saying she's not horrible.  But the grounds for why it may or may not be an automatically excommunicable offense are complicated.  Which offense, precisely, is what gives ground for excommunication? Because it looks like you have to have a specific action in mind when you're excommunicating someone, at least according to what's been quoted from canon law in this thread.  How different is creating laws that allow for abortions to happen legally from encouraging a woman to seek an abortion, driving her to the clinic, and/or performing the abortion yourself?  That part seems ambiguous, and should be cleared up. 

[ToJesusMyHeart]

In Mass today, at the kickoff Mass for the Fortnight for Freedom, I was not able to sing "America the beautiful" because I don't believe that we are a beautiful country anymore. 

 

I don't know if I should feel bad about my lack of patriotism. I am not proud to be an American. 

[Socrates]

I think the problem is that the situation is complicated, because she's not exactly encouraging a specific person to go get an abortion, or saying that everyone needs to get abortions.  Technically, what she's doing is saying that people have the "right" to get an abortion.  But on the other hand, she's a public figure, so she has a greater responsibility to represent Catholic teaching, especially because she's so public about her Catholic faith.  Maybe it'd be different if she kept her religious beliefs private.  Or maybe it wouldn't, I don't know.  

 

I do hope her bishop is talking with her.  Isn't she under his jurisdiction, so it's up to him to "take care of" her situation?  Are other bishops putting pressure on him to do something about it?  

 

Nancy Pelosi has consistently campaigned in favor of abortion (the deliberate murder of an unborn child - a sin which cries out to heaven for vengeance), and opposed even the smallest restrictions on this evil.  

 

And her remark concerning abortion being "sacred ground" is blasphemy of a high order - you'd think any serious Catholic would be able to smell the smoke of Satan in that statement.

 

The Church makes it quite clear that the actions Pelosi (and politicians who similarly support abortion "rights") prohibit her from receiving Holy Communion, and that priests should deny her Communion until she publicly repents of this evil.

 

The Church teaches that abortion or euthanasia is a grave sin. The Encyclical Letter Evangelium vitae, with reference to judicial decisions or civil laws that authorize or promote abortion or euthanasia, states that there is a "grave and clear obligation to oppose them by conscientious objection. [...] In the case of an intrinsically unjust law, such as a law permitting abortion or euthanasia, it is therefore never licit to obey it, or to 'take part in a propaganda campaign in favour of such a law or vote for it'" (no. 73). Christians have a "grave obligation of conscience not to cooperate formally in practices which, even if permitted by civil legislation, are contrary to God’s law. Indeed, from the moral standpoint, it is never licit to cooperate formally in evil. [...] This cooperation can never be justified either by invoking respect for the freedom of others or by appealing to the fact that civil law permits it or requires it" (no. 74)

 

Pelosi does not have to start personally encouraging people to get an abortion for her political support to be considered formal cooperation in the grave evil of abortion.

 

5. Regarding the grave sin of abortion or euthanasia, when a person’s formal cooperation becomes manifest (understood, in the case of a Catholic politician, as his consistently campaigning and voting for permissive abortion and euthanasia laws), his Pastor should meet with him, instructing him about the Church’s teaching, informing him that he is not to present himself for Holy Communion until he brings to an end the objective situation of sin, and warning him that he will otherwise be denied the Eucharist.

6. When "these precautionary measures have not had their effect or in which they were not possible," and the person in question, with obstinate persistence, still presents himself to receive the Holy Eucharist, "the minister of Holy Communion must refuse to distribute it" (cf. Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts Declaration "Holy Communion and Divorced, Civilly Remarried Catholics" [2002], nos. 3-4). This decision, properly speaking, is not a sanction or a penalty. Nor is the minister of Holy Communion passing judgment on the person’s subjective guilt, but rather is reacting to the person’s public unworthiness to receive Holy Communion due to an objective situation of sin.

~ From "Worthiness to Receive Holy Communion: General Principles," by Cardinal Ratzinger, Prefect of the CDF

 

Granted, the above is not the same as formal excommunication, but it is clear that at very least, Pelosi needs to be personally counseled against her political support for abortion, then denied Communion if she refuses to repent.

 

Have these steps been taken?

 

The inaction of Church officials regarding pro-abortion "Catholic" politicians creates scandal, and causes confusion among Catholics, who often wrongly think that politically supporting abortion is an acceptable option for Catholics.

[Socrates]

I don't think Pelosi's argument is that human life isn't sacred or that abortion isn't a grave sin. Her argument is it shouldn't be against the civil law for people to commit this grave sin - it's in the same category as lying or adultery for her. When really it should be in the same category as rape.

 

From what I understand this puts her in the horrible human being category, but not in the heretic category.
 

 

It puts her in the category of needing to be denied Communion as long as she politically supports abortion - see above.

 

At the very minimum, this action needs to be taken.

[Kateri89]

In Mass today, at the kickoff Mass for the Fortnight for Freedom, I was not able to sing "America the beautiful" because I don't believe that we are a beautiful country anymore.

I don't know if I should feel bad about my lack of patriotism. I am not proud to be an American.

I've felt this way for a really long time. When I see bumper stickers that say 'God Bless America' I think "why should He? What makes us deserving of His blessing?" We are an increasingly selfish, secular society that rejects His profound truths. Promoting abortion, gay marriage, and materialism at every turn...

[cappie]

Living in Australia I not too sure about this woman but at least on the surface it seems obvious that, if left to her own lights, she will never alter her views. For her sake, therefore, and for those confused by the chronic scandal she gives, Pelosi needs to be formally warned against taking holy Communion for so long as she promotes, as consistent with our Catholic faith, a variety of gravely immoral policies (per cc. 916, 1339); ministers, meanwhile, in her environs need to be directed to withhold Communion from her till advised otherwise by the competent ecclesiastical authority (per c. 915). Whether that happens or not I'm too far away......................

[ToJesusMyHeart]

I've felt this way for a really long time. When I see bumper stickers that say 'God Bless America' I think "why should He? What makes us deserving of His blessing?" We are an increasingly selfish, secular society that rejects His profound truths. Promoting abortion, gay marriage, and materialism at every turn...

 

My thoughts exactly.

[cappie]

I've felt this way for a really long time. When I see bumper stickers that say 'God Bless America' I think "why should He? What makes us deserving of His blessing?" We are an increasingly selfish, secular society that rejects His profound truths. Promoting abortion, gay marriage, and materialism at every turn...

 

Don't mean to be picky, and being Australian I don't get the whole God Bless America thing but:

 

You have heard that it was said, “You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.” But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be children of your Father in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. . . . Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. (Matthew 5:43-48, NRSV)

 

We have to be the best we can be :saint2: