"i Need Feminism Because..." Cambridge University Students Sha

[Chestertonian]

There's a difference between feminism and sexism. True feminism is a good thing. Unfortunately, there are many sexist women going under the banner of "feminist" that are in charge of the movement and are thus making everyone think that's what feminism is. However, it is not.

 

How do you define 'true feminism?'

[Sister Marie]

THIS

 

 

Which is why I don't get why I see feminists get so worked up over some stuff like this. You don't see nuns or priests in the street protesting "WE'RE NOT LIKE THAT" because the media gives suckish portrayals of them.

 

While you personally might not see nuns and priests in the street protesting, there is certainly a protest that needs to be made in that regard.  I don't have anything to say for the priests because I'm not one (they can speak for themselves) but there are certainly some serious reasons to protest the way sisters are portrayed. 

 

The over-sexualization of nuns in pornography and in the media is one area where this is a huge problem and its an insult to women in general.  I don't know if you've ever looked at Sister Julie Viera's blog, www.anunslife.org, but she addresses these stereotypes often in her writings (which is a type of protest in and of itself).  While it seems like it is only present in the media, these things have a way of flowing over into the real life way sisters are treated.  Leaving specifics out because they are unnecessary and disedifying... you wouldn't believe some of the things men have said to me as a sister because of this portrayal of religious women.  They have been embarrassing and humiliating.  Yes, we should suffer for Christ.  However, do my students need to hear some dirty man's thoughts about me when I walk their line out at dismissal?  I don't think so. 

 

There are, of course more subtle comments made.  They allude to the fact that the beauty of a young sister is much more worthwhile and important than her intellect or her work, or, simply, her life given to God. 

 

Besides the over-sexualization of nuns in the media you also have the proliferation of images of nuns as naïve, stupid, angry bitter old women, ruler- wielding tyrants, and as pawns to be manipulated.  It is an affront to the human dignity of sisters and, hopefully, we are protesting by our lives and our words that we are not any of the above everyday.   

[Socrates]

multi-quote feature isn't working - but to the two posters above me, can you give me examples of which ones you think are stupid or irrelevant? 

 

I know I'm not one of the two posters you're questioning, but I think the one about rape was particularly inane.

 

I'm not at all feminist (at least not in any sense the word would commonly be used on your typical modern college campus), however I am 100% against rape, which I find an utterly horrific and despicable act.  If I caught a would-be rapist, I would try to beat him to a bloody pulp.  All other traditional conservative non-feminist men I know feel the same way.

 

I also know many women (including my wife) who do not identify as feminists who would certainly in no way condone or accept rape.

 

The idea that people who are not feminists are all hateful, misogynist brutes (or else, weak, self-loathing women) who have no problem with rape is complete nonsense and garbage.

 

I also don't believe modern feminism has done jack squat to lessen occurrences of rape or prevent men from being rapists.  I think the old-fashioned ideals of chivalry and honor, in which raping a woman would bring immense shame and dishonor to a man, has a stronger positive effect than any modern feminist "gender studies" babbling about oppression.

 

After all, the casual hook-up, date-rape, bang-as-many-chicks-as-you-can-however-you-can-get-em culture is much more a feature of the modern post-feminist age, than of the pre-feminist "bad old days."

 

 

 

I also don't think there's anything wrong with a woman thinking finding a good man is more important than a good school.   Modern feminism has unfortunately demeaned the importance of marriage and family in the minds of many.

Edited June 18, 2013 by Socrates

[PhuturePriest]

How do you define 'true feminism?'

 

True feminism = what the feminism is actually about. It's about equality and women's rights as human beings. Equality does not equal sameness, and it does not equal treating men and women as if there are no differences. There are differences, but they are complimentary to each other (Unless we're talking about the nine million soaps they have in the bathroom. That's simply not complimentary), and we should respect the differences for what they are. But having differences doesn't mean one is above the other, either.

 

Anyway, that, to me, is what feminism represents. It doesn't represent marriage equality, declaring that women are in charge of their bodies and men have no say, and it doesn't mean conveying a despising attitude towards men. Hating men is the last thing the feminist leaders wanted to happen. They wanted equality and fairness and to stop hate, not simply turn the tables.

[CrossCuT]

Which is why I don't get why I see feminists get so worked up over some stuff like this. You don't see nuns or priests in the street protesting "WE'RE NOT LIKE THAT" because the media gives suckish portrayals of them.

 

I do not like the way the media stereotypes anyone.

I truly hope that you dont watch all these movies and believe the stereotypes of feed into them. Just because you see it in a movie doesnt mean it is true.

Stereotypes are formed and fed by the media which everyone is exposed to, we must resist! Or at LEAST realize that they are NOT an accurate representation of society. People are much more colorful than that.

 

Not all women fit the barbie, homemaker, child rearing stereotype.

Just as not all men fit the strong, hardworking, breadwinner stereotype.

[Lil Red]

I wasn't even thinking of abortion rights. I was thinking of little things like this:

 

http://www.sanctepater.com/2013/04/femen-feminists-attack-archbishop-andre.html

 

There is also a major motion within the feminist movement to further marriage equality.

 

i saw your post before the edit. and to the point you edited, women aborting their babies without input from the fathers - that moment is already here. perhaps why you edited? :) 

 

i guess the problem as i see it in trying to define a movement, especially one like feminism, is that there are so many differing factions within that movement. so, yes, there are parts of the feminist movement that are furthering "marriage equality" (whatever that means). 

[PhuturePriest]

i saw your post before the edit. and to the point you edited, women aborting their babies without input from the fathers - that moment is already here. perhaps why you edited? :)

 

i guess the problem as i see it in trying to define a movement, especially one like feminism, is that there are so many differing factions within that movement. so, yes, there are parts of the feminist movement that are furthering "marriage equality" (whatever that means). 

 

Indeed, that would be the reason for the edit! :)

 

And yeah. I'm going off of what the founders wanted, though. They, to me, represent what the feminist movement is about. But I've quite clearly and blatantly been wrong before, so if you would like to correct me in some way then I would be open to it!

[Socrates]

lots of people still find it shocking when a "pretty" girl is interested in sciences or maths. doesn't help that movies/music/etc still reinforce the idea that only ugly/nerdy girls are interested in those things - and that popular/pretty girls aren't/shouldn't be.

 

I don't think this kind of stereotyping is really restricted to girls or tied to feminist issues.

 

There's the whole teenage stereotype/cliche of the dumb popular jock vs. the smart but physically weak/unattractive nerd.

(Or the jocks and cheerleaders vs.nerds of both sexes.)

 

 

And, on the flip side, it seems the brilliant female scientist who just happens to also be a smokin' hot sexy babe has been something of a stock character of B-movies since the '50s.

Edited June 18, 2013 by Socrates

[Basilisa Marie]

Feminism is important.  But it's also a huge beast with hundreds of heads.  The only thing that everyone seems to agree on is that women are important, and deserve rights.  

 

I think a lot of people who don't like to call themselves "feminist" are actually "feminist", because they think women are important and deserve rights.  It's unfair to characterize all of feminism with one brush stroke, whether it be Catholic feminism or some form of radical secular feminism.  

[Lil Red]

Indeed, that would be the reason for the edit! :)

 

And yeah. I'm going off of what the founders wanted, though. They, to me, represent what the feminist movement is about. But I've quite clearly and blatantly been wrong before, so if you would like to correct me in some way then I would be open to it!

 

i think there is more and more a movement toward including feminists of all stripes - including pro-life feminists. (an influential feminist, Camile Paglia, has argued that the major feminist movement needs to do so.)

[Lil Red]

 

And, on the flip side, it seems the brilliant female scientist who just happens to also be a smokin' hot sexy babe has been something of a stock character of B-movies since the '50s.

 

you mean, all brilliant female scientists aren't smokin' hot babes? :o ;) 

[Lil Red]

I know I'm not one of the two posters you're questioning, but I think the one about rape was particularly inane.

 

I'm not at all feminist (at least not in any sense the word would commonly be used on your typical modern college campus), however I am 100% against rape, which I find an utterly horrific and despicable act.  If I caught a would-be rapist, I would try to beat him to a bloody pulp.  All other traditional conservative non-feminist men I know feel the same way.

 

I also know many women (including my wife) who do not identify as feminists who would certainly in no way condone or accept rape.

 

The idea that people who are not feminists are all hateful, misogynist brutes (or else, weak, self-loathing women) who have no problem with rape is complete nonsense and garbage.

 

I also don't believe modern feminism has done jack squat to lessen occurrences of rape or prevent men from being rapists.  I think the old-fashioned ideals of chivalry and honor, in which raping a woman would bring immense shame and dishonor to a man, has a stronger positive effect than any modern feminist "gender studies" babbling about oppression.

 

After all, the casual hook-up, date-rape, bang-as-many-chicks-as-you-can-however-you-can-get-em culture is much more a feature of the modern post-feminist age, than of the pre-feminist "bad old days."

 

 

 

I also don't think there's anything wrong with a woman thinking finding a good man is more important than a good school.   Modern feminism has unfortunately demeaned the importance of marriage and family in the minds of many.

 

sorry, which one about rape? (I think there was two or three?) 

 

and i guess i don't know which era of old-fashioned ideals you're talking about. 50s? earlier? rape still happened, and men weren't shamed. the women were shamed for "leading him on", dressing like they "asked for it", etc. same reasons child abuse happened. because where you have someone weaker (like women and children), someone more powerful (like men) will often take advantage of them and use their "power" to silence them or intimidate them. 

 

the part I bolded is because I guess I see that as a strawman? (incorrect term maybe?) I don't see anyone arguing that. (of course, I don't know which one about rape you're talking about, so i might not be correct.)

 

(btw, hey! how's it going?)

[Lil Red]

btw, feminists for life has a great page detailing feminist history: http://www.feministsforlife.org/history/index.htm :) 

 

[Socrates]

Feminism is important.  But it's also a huge beast with hundreds of heads.  The only thing that everyone seems to agree on is that women are important, and deserve rights.  

 

I think a lot of people who don't like to call themselves "feminist" are actually "feminist", because they think women are important and deserve rights.  It's unfair to characterize all of feminism with one brush stroke, whether it be Catholic feminism or some form of radical secular feminism.  

 

I suppose if you want to redefine "feminist" to mean anyone who loves and respects women, then yeah, we all should be raging feminists.

 

However, feminism usually refers to a particular ideology (or set of related ideologies) that generally wants to erase or minimize gender differences or sex roles in society.

 

However, there are many people (both men and women) who believe in more traditional sex roles for men and women who do not consider themselves feminist, yet are not at all hateful or misogynist.

 

The whole idea that either you are a feminist or else are a misogynist who thinks women should not have rights is bogus.

[PhuturePriest]

you mean, all brilliant female scientists aren't smokin' hot babes? :o ;)

 

I don't care what people say, intelligence is attractive.

Edited June 18, 2013 by FuturePriest387