Catholics, Lutherans Jointly To Mark Reformation Anniversary

[Luigi]

AAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!

 

Triple post!

 

Sorry, you guys.

[BigJon16]

Ummm....

 

I'm not sure that this is very wise.  The intent may be good but the perception will be that "We're all Christians, we all follow the same God, it's all good"...  How many people have no idea of the distinctions between the religions?  There are obviously very important distinctions.

 

"To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant" - Cardinal Newman

 

I doubt he would be impressed.

 

To give such an impression to the world at large will (I predict) further the popular image society has of Jesus as a hippie who loves everyone and doesn't require them to change their sinful ways.  In my opinion, if people don't think that the differences between Catholics and Protestants are important, then they don't truly understand.  And if that's the case, they're more likely to follow the Protestant line of thinking.  I don't intend this to sound disrespectful, but Catholics seem to recognize the sacredness of many things that Protestants just don't.  This is why we have candles, statues, tabernacles, etc.  I believe many Protestants are trying to follow Christ but have yet to discover the overwhelming truth of Him in the Catholic faith.

 

 

I understand your caution and you make a good point. We don't want truth to be scandalized by unity. 

 

 

 

Obviously scandal is not the desired effect of unity. The desired effect of unity is for truth to be better understood, which is the opposite of scandal.  

 

Protestants + better understanding of truth = conversions to the truth of Catholicism.

 

Unity, when done right, can be one of the greatest forms of evangelism. It involves the humility of meeting people on their level. Protestants are people too, just as are the poor, or any non-believer. They have real human feelings and needs, desires and beliefs. To stand on a high-horse and sling stones at them is not going to convert hearts in any way. But coming together where "heart speaks unto heart".. well, that's where I think hearts and minds are going to be moved to beauty and truth (Catholicism). It is social solidarity at it's finest.

 

 

There are beautiful examples of this in the way that John Paul II dealt with communism, as well as in the words and actions of our beloved Pope Francis. We also see this example in the tales of Francis of Assisi's missions in the Holy Land. It could be said that even Our Lord used solidarity to preach to the Gentiles and Jews alike. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Great plug with the Newman quote, though. Love that man!  

[WillT]

My great grandmother (a German Lutheran) disowned my great aunt because she married a Catholic.

[Kateri89]

I understand your caution and you make a good point. We don't want truth to be scandalized by unity. 

 

 

 

Obviously scandal is not the desired effect of unity. The desired effect of unity is for truth to be better understood, which is the opposite of scandal.  

 

Protestants + better understanding of truth = conversions to the truth of Catholicism.

 

Unity, when done right, can be one of the greatest forms of evangelism. It involves the humility of meeting people on their level. Protestants are people too, just as are the poor, or any non-believer. They have real human feelings and needs, desires and beliefs. To stand on a high-horse and sling stones at them is not going to convert hearts in any way. But coming together where "heart speaks unto heart".. well, that's where I think hearts and minds are going to be moved to beauty and truth (Catholicism). It is social solidarity at it's finest.

 

 

There are beautiful examples of this in the way that John Paul II dealt with communism, as well as in the words and actions of our beloved Pope Francis. We also see this example in the tales of Francis of Assisi's missions in the Holy Land. It could be said that even Our Lord used solidarity to preach to the Gentiles and Jews alike. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Great plug with the Newman quote, though. Love that man!  

 

I totally agree that we as Catholics should know better than to talk down to Protestants or anyone for that matter.  I also believe that if we truly want people to convert, it'll be because we genuinely want them to know the beauty and truth of the Church, not because we want to win arguments.  I just think that ecumenism is something to be very cautious with.  We have a responsibility to promote unity but just the same we need to preach the truth and that can cause division...it's a fine line.

[BigJon16]

I totally agree that we as Catholics should know better than to talk down to Protestants or anyone for that matter.  I also believe that if we truly want people to convert, it'll be because we genuinely want them to know the beauty and truth of the Church, not because we want to win arguments.  I just think that ecumenism is something to be very cautious with.  We have a responsibility to promote unity but just the same we need to preach the truth and that can cause division...it's a fine line.

 

 

Definitely! 

[HisChildForever]

Unity, when done right, can be one of the greatest forms of evangelism. It involves the humility of meeting people on their level. Protestants are people too, just as are the poor, or any non-believer. They have real human feelings and needs, desires and beliefs. To stand on a high-horse and sling stones at them is not going to convert hearts in any way. But coming together where "heart speaks unto heart".. well, that's where I think hearts and minds are going to be moved to beauty and truth (Catholicism). It is social solidarity at it's finest.

 

Exactly. Superiority complexes are just plain rude - and alienating. Telling a Lutheran, Baptist, or Pentecostal who's been born and raised into that faith and has strong ties to the church community (familial or social) that he's a heretic living in error on the straight path to Hell is just not common decency, nor will it make him look at Catholicism as anything other than a snobby, self-righteous institution.

[Dr. Bombay]

Very few modern Protestants are heretics so to call them that would not only be uncharitable, it would be inaccurate as well.

 

Luther, however, was without a doubt a heretic and he died as such.  The passage of 500 years does not alter that reality in the least.

[morostheos]

This event is not just some "oh, look we're all one and warm and fuzzy!" event. It is part of an ongoing series of dialogues between the Vatican and the Lutherans that has been happening for decades now. They have been meeting and discussing important theological doctrines, and finding things both groups agree on. As the article states, a big step forward happened in 1999 when both parties decided they agreed on the doctrine of justification. 

 

This article in First Things talks about some of the more recent discussions. 

[BG45]

 

In my experience, Protestants today identify their faith more with their individual church than the movement that founded it. In other words, they really aren't "protesting" because they either don't pay much attention to Catholicism or they don't know much about their denomination's core theology. Like it's more church-based than denomination-driven.

 

Which is part of why the umbrella term often used any more is "Evangelical" instead of "Protestant".  Speaking as a former Baptist/Protestant/Evangelical, it really is more about the individual church usually than anything else; even when there is a greater group out there, it tends to be "Yeah we belong to that, but we do what we do." Usually I've had issues finding anyone, pastors included, who can adequately explain why a denomination believes what it  does.

 

Lutherans and Episcopalians, at least in my personal experience, are somewhat an exception to that and I think it's due to their focus on liturgy; like Luigi said, some Lutherans use almost word for word our own liturgy, just without the Real Presence. 

 

/finishes agreeing with you

[Apotheoun]

Very few modern Protestants are heretics so to call them that would not only be uncharitable, it would be inaccurate as well.

 

Luther, however, was without a doubt a heretic and he died as such.  The passage of 500 years does not alter that reality in the least.

Actually, speaking as a former Methodist, Protestants in general are heretics, that is, material heretics, but not formal heretics. Now, saying that Protestantism is heretical, and that Protestants are material heretics has nothing to do with being uncharitable or expressing some kind of superiority complex; instead, it has to do with being truthful.

 

As far as Luther is concerned, I agree that he was a formal heretic.

Edited June 18, 2013 by Apotheoun

[Guest]

This is awesome...Glad to see this...