Dawkins: 'being Raised Catholic Is Worse Than Child Abuse'

[CatholicsAreKewl]

It's something I'd love to be able to hear about from Dawkins actually, because the process for embracing atheism is often similar.  It happens while a teen or early adult most often and is a conscious decision to declare God (or gods) does not exist; the decision being grounded in argument with some emotional force acting as an additional agent.  When I see someone as evangelical about Atheism as Professor Dawkins, or the late Christopher Hitchens, or PZ Myers, it makes me wonder what emotionally is providing the sustaining fire for that level of proselytizing against religion?

 

I think it's a little different for each of them. From what I know, it tends to boil down to the fact that they honestly don't believe in God and they fear the consequences of people following authorities claiming to act on behalf of a divine entity.

[BG45]

I think it's a little different for each of them. From what I know, it tends to boil down to the fact that they honestly don't believe in God and they fear the consequences of people following authorities claiming to act on behalf of a divine entity.

 

I would agree with that as a probable cause for many to most.  And honestly, I get the chills and fear the consequences of most people who claim they're acting on behalf of some sort of divine authority.  I forget the official and where I read it, but supposedly there was an under-secretary or secretary of some sort in Reagan's administration for instance, who said it didn't matter if nuclear war happened with the Soviets, because Jesus would come back after and punish all the godless communists.   

[Chestertonian]

Dawkins really should stick to biology, though, and leave philosophy to philosophers. Alvin Plantinga, probably the most revered and respected Philosopher of Religion in the US, had this to say about The God Delusion:

 

"You might say that some of his forays into philosophy are at best sophomoric, but that would be unfair to sophomores; the fact is (grade inflation aside), many of his arguments would receive a failing grade in a sophomore philosophy class."

 

Yowch.

 

Edited June 20, 2013 by Chestertonian

[BG45]

Darn positive quota of votes reached for the day, wanted to prop the book review post.  Wasn't too impressed with God Delusion personally; too many strawman arguments.

[Chestertonian]

Darn positive quota of votes reached for the day, wanted to prop the book review post.  Wasn't too impressed with God Delusion personally; too many strawman arguments.

 

Strawman arguments are pretty typical in the 'new atheist' manifestos. Their predecessors ( Nietzsche and Camu, for example) were a lot more substantive.

[Era Might]

He sounds like a real bright bulb.

[Papist]

I'm confused. What is the debate supposed to be. And I am really confused that there is no poll.

[CatholicsAreKewl]

No, it's totally a debate. Half of the posters are all like "Dawkins is dumb" while I'm all like "okay, those two or three or ten things he said were dumb, but like he's smart sometimes..."

[Laudate_Dominum]

Dawkin's statement was based on a story a woman told him, the story was of her experience of Catholocism, that's why he chose Catholicism and compared it to child abuse. He was conveying one person's experience.

 

Dawkins has also made many arguments against the Islamic religion.

 

If one were to rebut Dawkin's statement then one ought to address the attrocity of painfully buring people for eternity. If Catholics believe god does this then how is this justified? How can this not be seen as traumatic for a devout practicing Catholic whom cares about the fate of other humans, of their friends, of their family.

If heaven and hell exists how could a Catholic in "heaven" not spend every second of eternity, begging to their god to stop torturing people in hell.
 

Here is a video of the incident.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1iSxEtgEGs

[Laudate_Dominum]

I wouldn't classify Dawkins as militant, he doesn't use weapons to hurt anyone.

 

The word "militant" does not mean the use of weapons to hurt people. The first adjectival definition on dictionary.com: "vigorously active and aggressive, especially in support of a cause: militant reformers."

[Laudate_Dominum]

Dawkins' words are an insult to people who have suffered real child abuse.  

 

This young child's parents were stupid to tell her that her Protestant friend is in Hell.  Yes, there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church in that everyone who has the Beatific Vision certainly will be Catholic.  But we do not know how deep or how wide God's mercy goes and there is no way to definitively say where someone is after they die, unless they make it through the canonization process :)

 

It's certainly plausible that an emotionally abusive parent could use the doctrine of hell to seriously torment a child. There seem to be enough ex-Christians out there who say that something of this sort was part of their childhood experience. I wouldn't belittle this. It's something for Catholic parents and educators to think about at least.

 

Here's my anecdote: I had an aged priest tell me that the way he was brought up in Ireland was highly Jansenist and flat out evil in many respects. The way hell and protestants were characterized was one aspect of this, as I recall. In this case the fellow ended up becoming a priest, but it seemed evident that even 60+ years later he still had some baggage. I might speculate that the agenda to de-emphasize hell, or at least reframe the teachings about hell and damnation, as in the Vatican II era, was driven by people with a similar experience.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Laudate_Dominum

[dairygirl4u2c]

depends on if he takes old school catholic approach or not per much of his criticism. 

 

per hell. even the catholic encyclopedia says that hell involves literally burning one's skin. seems sadistic to me, and modern sensibilities. 

 

per none Catholics going to hell. it's not unreasonable for someone to look at medival teachings that say no salvation for them, and conclude that's at least the traditional teaching. 

 

if these things are true, he'd just be calling a spade a spade. "your protestant friends is going to hell" is true, "your flesh will burn with literal fire and if it grows back it will only grow back to burn some more".

 

these are traumatizing ideas for anyone let alone kids, yet exactly the traditional teachings of the catholic church. 

Edited June 21, 2013 by dairygirl4u2c

[dairygirl4u2c]

the audience at the end of that video, when polled, were split as to whether being raised catholic was worse than child abuse

[dairygirl4u2c]

atheists types go after muslims too. just depends on the day, circumstances. 

 

[Era Might]

No, it's totally a debate. Half of the posters are all like "Dawkins is dumb" while I'm all like "okay, those two or three or ten things he said were dumb, but like he's smart sometimes..."

 

[19] For it is written, "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and the cleverness of the clever I will thwart."
[20] Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 
[21] For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. 
[22] For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 
[23] but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 
[24] but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 
[25] For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

 

1Corinthians 1:19-25