Golden Years Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 All of the 1990 Carmelite nuns I have been in touch with say they don't use psych tests. I am pretty sure that none of them use them. Discerning with Carmelites is a psychological test in itself :wacko: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiquitunga Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 :lol: at Golden Years All of the 1990 Carmelite nuns I have been in touch with say they don't use psych tests. I am pretty sure that none of them use them. So far I've heard of four that do actually, and not especially modern ones or anything. In one case I know it was because the diocese asked it of them. Perhaps this is the case with the others. I can let you know via PM/email. I did not take one for where I went though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Marie Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Yes, and I'm aware the community has a lot to work on. They don't require psych evaluations from every candidate -- only those who have a documented disorder like I do. They just admitted another postulant last month and she was not given a psych eval. Their first postulant from the States wasn't either. I think each community needs to be consistent. It's not fair to require one thing from one candidate and something from another. I'm not clinically insane -- I'm sure of it. Otherwise, they would have locked me up a long time ago. ;) Anyway, I could go over and over what I think the community should have done differently. They are not familiar with the way communities in the States do things because they are primarily a European community and only have 2 postulants from the US. I pray that they will continue to work on their admission and formation program. Regardless, I am glad that I never entered there. I think they are a terrific community but, obviously, God has something else in mind and I've made my peace with that. :) Mater, I know you've been through a lot with this community and my comments are not on your situation but they reminded me of something important to remember in discernment. I agree with your summary of your situation and I wish things had been different for you because psychological assessments really are for helping the person, not evaluating them. I just want to throw out a word of caution about the way communities treat candidates. While there should be some system in place for screening and accepting candidates, no discernment period is the same for any two women, nor should it be. Each of us have different needs as we discern and addressing them is being fair on the part of the community. Sometimes it doesn't seem fair because it isn't the same for each person but fairness really lies in giving each person what they need. It is fair to require one thing from one candidate and not from another because we are all different. I think in our culture we forget this sometimes because of our legalistic approach to things and I often hear similar remarks in school about the way children are treated. When I was discerning there was another young woman who had been discerning considerably longer than I had and she was sure she was ready to enter after she graduated college. Well, the community asked her to live on her own for a while before applying for entrance. I entered in the middle of my college career. Now we are both sisters and know that the community did the right thing for each of us even though it was difficult at the time. It's a really good thing when a community can reach out to all the women discerning in a personal way and do their best to help them do God's will, especially when it requires something difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spem in alium Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 My personal opinion ... you need to know about yourself in order to work on yourself. My personality is my personality, and I can work on my weaknesses. And over time I would hope that the weakness is gradually lessened. And again the importance of a spiritual director. Yes -- certain things when talking about personality falls under the realm of psychiatry/psychology, but there are things that can be dealt with on a spiritual level as well, and that's where the role of spiritual director comes in. (edit: minor typo) Agree 100%. I think you need to know yourself well before others can. For me, having a spiritual director has really helped that, because she has taken what I've said and made connections I didn't notice. She definitely helps me know myself better in that regard. I am a phlegmatic/melancholic person. Also an INFJ. So I'm fairly introverted, but I also know myself enough that I can push myself to be extroverted, to take chances or to test my comfort zone when necessary. I think it's important to have such a dynamic - to know what satisfies you, but also to be prepared to have to be or do what doesn't. Religious life, and probably any vocation, actually, seems as though it requires this kind of balance. While there may be certain elements that adhere to personal strengths and attractions, there could well be much that will deviate from those. Thus, it's very, very important to know and embrace who you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 I so agree with Mater, that the psych eval, if one is used, should not be the determining criteria for acceptance or rejection, but a tool for everyone concerned and taken into account along with the results of face to face meetings, a reasonable period of correspondence (by whatever means), and the various recommendations and references received. When I was zelatrix this is the system we used and it seems as relevant today as it was back then. Where were you zelatrix? I've heard of zealotors before, in men's communities, but of all the women's communities I was in, not a single one of them had a zelatrix. And they were of all different orders and degrees of traditionalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmilyAnn Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Where were you zelatrix? I've heard of zealotors before, in men's communities, but of all the women's communities I was in, not a single one of them had a zelatrix. And they were of all different orders and degrees of traditionalism. It may have been different in her community, but in the community I discerned with (which originated in France/Belgium) Mother Zelatrix (or Mere Zelatrice as it said on her door in French) was the assistant novice-mistress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 It may have been different in her community, but in the community I discerned with (which originated in France/Belgium) Mother Zelatrix (or Mere Zelatrice as it said on her door in French) was the assistant novice-mistress. What order was that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiara Francesco Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 All of the 1990 Carmelite nuns I have been in touch with say they don't use psych tests. I am pretty sure that none of them use them. There is one 1990 Carmel I know who HAS to use it because of their too modern bishop that thankfully left and was replaced but so far the new bishop hasn't stopped this. Up until maybe a year ago, the nuns didn't have to have the test at all. And the worse is they want the full battery of tests that are given to the seminarians. The nuns DO NOT want the test but they will pay for the test - at least for one person I know - that is given by a religious Sister and who have the sisters a vastly reduced rate. Another good thing is that these nuns told this person that they DO NOT have to answer any question they are uncomfortable with and the results ONLY go to them and not the diocese or anyone else. So many orders I have found do NOT use them as the found them useless to a large degree - which they are...but don't get me started on that topic!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmilyAnn Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 What order was that? Benedictines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Benedictines. Huh... Solesmes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maximillion Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 (edited) I was in France.......the community was cloistered and dedicated to the Sacred Heart. I think Zelatrix was/is in use in quite a few French communities. Oh, and yes, in my case it meant assistant to our NM, in my case a rather office based assistant. I think it would have entirely freaked me out to have had responsibility for the formation of our novices. Edited June 14, 2013 by maximillion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikita92 Posted June 15, 2013 Author Share Posted June 15, 2013 Thank you all for some very interesting and informative information and perspectives and sharing of experiances!! The reason I asked about personality types ... I actually read it in a article about spiritual direction, and it gave me pause to ponder what a suitable type might consist of. (If there was such a thing) It's amazing how people change and develop over the years. I look back as I was growing up.. going to school...I was shy and basically introverted...don't think I would have had the nerve to seek out a community. As a adult I am completely the opposite now. As far as testing goes.. Being middle aged..having employment in the security field (and tested for everything except THAT) If that would help a community to know.. I would be willing to take it. BALANCE is important for a community. Same goes for having a variety of ages as well! If a community was made up of nothing but 20 and 30 yr olds, I would probably think twice about it. (And at my age.. I don't have to concern myself with that.. I am beyond.. for the most part of the majority of the communities out there) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiquitunga Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 (edited) BALANCE is important for a community. Same goes for having a variety of ages as well! If a community was made up of nothing but 20 and 30 yr olds, I would probably think twice about it. Just picking this part out of your comment to say, I whole heartedly agree!! I think balance is important. This may just be me but I think I'd feel overwhelmed if all the women were around my age...... Some yes, but all (or most even) is another thing. We have so much to learn from our elders :saint: (& those who have been living the life for years) Edited June 15, 2013 by Chiquitunga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikita92 Posted June 16, 2013 Author Share Posted June 16, 2013 Yes for sure!! I agree with your feeling over whelmed with same like ages. Back in the 70's I remember that High schools had sororities that a girl would have to be sponsored by another member, before she could become a member.. I was excited and nervous about measuring up and not being accepted by its "senior ranking community members"! Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikita92 Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 For a quick test of finding out what ones spiritual gifts are.. Check this out-http://www.spiritualgiftstest.com/test/adult Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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