Catholic Boy Scouts Substitute: Scouts Of St. George

[Gabriela]

Who's reasoning that?

 

The people who are against the idea because of the timing. They claim it will make it look like Catholics just hate gays.

 

The timing is the whole point. BSA hasn't been compatible with Catholicism for a long time. Right now there's motivation to do something about it. To do something GOOD and CATHOLIC about it. Why not take advantage?

[HisChildForever]

The people who are against the idea because of the timing. They claim it will make it look like Catholics just hate gays.

 

The timing is the whole point. BSA hasn't been compatible with Catholicism for a long time. Right now there's motivation to do something about it. To do something GOOD and CATHOLIC about it. Why not take advantage?

 

"The people" would include me then, although the timing isn't the sole reason why this makes me feel iffy. It just feels so...exclusionary? And if exclusionary, that's lame. I don't know, I feel that parishes can have father/son camping trips and other events without labeling it "Catholic Scouts."

 

Anyway, I know BSA was founded on Christian principles, but non-Catholic Christian ones - so why is it a surprise if some of what they do clashes with Catholic teaching? Regardless, I don't see anything in Catholic teaching that encourages the exclusion of kids who struggle with their sexual orientation. Just because gay boys/teens can be "out" in the Scouts doesn't mean the BSA has lost their moral compass. As long as they don't promote the lifestyle I don't see what the problem is.

[PhuturePriest]

When camping, IMO the best combination of knives would be one larger one, like around six inches (or even longer, if you have use for it), obviously fixed blade, then a smaller folding knife, perhaps around three inches. There are several tasks better suited to smaller blades. Like making a feather stick.
Although even better would be a large fixed blade, a small fixed blade, then a folder.
Some people like to go ultra ultra light though, in which case probably a mid sized fixed blade is the way to go.

Exactly. I carry both on me when going outdoors. However, he found sheathed blades to be unnecessary, and he was right considering we never did anything. Had we, however, and there would have been many uses for it.

The anti-sheathed knife stance has been officially taken by the BSA. You are not allowed to carry them on official Scout camps, and in the handbook itself it strongly recommends against them, as they are "Clunky and awkward, and are too big for most Scouting purposes." They're only clunky and awkward if you're a moron and can't figure out how to strap a knife to your belt. I forget mine is on 99% of the time, and that's with constanly subconsciously putting my hand on the handle.

Talking about the BSA and they're wimpified stances on things always gets me fired up. :P

[Nihil Obstat]

Exactly. I carry both on me when going outdoors. However, he found sheathed blades to be unnecessary, and he was right considering we never did anything. Had we, however, and there would have been many uses for it.

The anti-sheathed knife stance has been officially taken by the BSA. You are not allowed to carry them on official Scout camps, and in the handbook itself it strongly recommends against them, as they are "Clunky and awkward, and are too big for most Scouting purposes." They're only clunky and awkward if you're a moron and can't figure out how to strap a knife to your belt. I forget mine is on 99% of the time, and that's with constanly subconsciously putting my hand on the handle.

Talking about the BSA and they're wimpified stances on things always gets me fired up. :P

You definitely need a good sheath, if you are going to carry a big knife. You can get away with a cheaper sheath for a small knife, because you will not notice it either way.

I use the stock sheath for my Mora, because it is designed specifically for my knife, and it is fairly slim and light. But the retention is not outstanding after about a year of regular use, so I would be a bit worried if I thought I might be climbing, or if the knife were bigger.

 

Not mine, but the same model:

 

[PhuturePriest]

"The people" would include me then, although the timing isn't the sole reason why this makes me feel iffy. It just feels so...exclusionary? And if exclusionary, that's lame. I don't know, I feel that parishes can have father/son camping trips and other events without labeling it "Catholic Scouts."

Anyway, I know BSA was founded on Christian principles, but non-Catholic Christian ones - so why is it a surprise if some of what they do clashes with Catholic teaching? Regardless, I don't see anything in Catholic teaching that encourages the exclusion of kids who struggle with their sexual orientation. Just because gay boys/teens can be "out" in the Scouts doesn't mean the BSA has lost their moral compass. As long as they don't promote the lifestyle I don't see what the problem is.

What's wrong with calling it Catholic? I suppose we should stop putting "Catholic" on groups like Theology on Tap, so people don't feel excluded? It's a Catholic-based organization. To not call it Catholic loses it's identity. Is it exclusionary? If you think calling a spade a spade is exclusionary then yes, it's exclusionary. But it would be stupid to not call it Catholic. It's literally called the Scouts of Saint George and it's mission is catechesis, for God's sake.

[KnightofChrist]

How surprising? On the surface it sounds neat, but in reality, this is basically a reaction to the BSA allowing children who call themselves gay to join their club.

Think about the people who will therefore be motivated to join this Scouts of St. George. The founding impetus is for parents who don't like the thought of Johnny being friends with people who have SSA (because it's catching or something).

Throw in a few gender stereotypes and you've got a fine brew. Frogs legs are not any more "masculine" than tofu stew, in fact frogs legs is a very FRENCH dish... so unless they will be handing out berets to wear around the campfire, perhaps adjustments are in order.

Blah blah blah... it's all very Tradition Family Property-ish. There's nothing wrong with it but I think it ought to give all right thinking Christians the willies.

Catholic families should be able form the Scouts of Saint George, or any other Catholic or Christian Scouts based solely on Catholic moral principles when the BSA has begun to abandon such principles. They should be able to do so without being shamed by fellow Catholics, the Devil and the world will handle that all their own. You and others who share your views may support open homosexuals serving in the Boy Scouts, but parents and families who feel it violates Catholic morals are not wrong to break away or form a new Scouts. Even if the new group was formed because it did not wish to accept open homosexuals. Right thinking Catholics do not have to adopt the world's false view of charity. Edited June 13, 2013 by KnightofChrist

[HisChildForever]

What's wrong with calling it Catholic? I suppose we should stop putting "Catholic" on groups like Theology on Tap, so people don't feel excluded? It's a Catholic-based organization. To not call it Catholic loses it's identity. Is it exclusionary? If you think calling a spade a spade is exclusionary then yes, it's exclusionary. But it would be stupid to not call it Catholic. It's literally called the Scouts of Saint George and it's mission is catechesis, for God's sake.

 

Did I say there was something wrong with calling it Catholic? No. To me, this is a Boy Scout spin-off, not a brand new, unique idea for Catholic boys. That's all. That's it. That's my impression. 

 

I already see this thread getting out of hand. This just in, people are allowed to express different viewpoints on Phatmass.

[GeorgiiMichael]

Well yeah, it is a Boy Scout spin off. So is the BSA. It says in their mission statement that they're taking the original ideas that Lord Baden Powell (the founder of the Boy Scouts in England, from which all subsequent Scouting organizations flow) and putting a distinctly Catholic spin on it. 

[PhuturePriest]

Did I say there was something wrong with calling it Catholic? No. To me, this is a Boy Scout spin-off, not a brand new, unique idea for Catholic boys. That's all. That's it. That's my impression.

I already see this thread getting out of hand. This just in, people are allowed to express different viewpoints on Phatmass.

You are the one that said calling it Catholic was exclusionary and unneeded. I was replying to what you said in that post. If you don't like how you worded your post, then clarify. But don't be surprised when people reply to what you said specifically.

[GeorgiiMichael]

And I can't speak to the others who are supporting this movement, but I myself would be perfectly happy with allowing scouts and leaders who struggle with SSA into the unit. Just like I wouldn't be okay with kicking a kid out who struggled with pornography or masturbation. As long as it was a struggle, and not something that they were embracing. Everyone struggles with sin. But in a Catholic Scout unit, it's not okay to openly embrace sin.

[PhuturePriest]

And I can't speak to the others who are supporting this movement, but I myself would be perfectly happy with allowing scouts and leaders who struggle with SSA into the unit. Just like I wouldn't be okay with kicking a kid out who struggled with pornography or masturbation. As long as it was a struggle, and not something that they were embracing. Everyone struggles with sin. But in a Catholic Scout unit, it's not okay to openly embrace sin.

Well said. I also firmly believe anyone in the Scouts of Saint George who openly embraces the asinine stance against sheathed knives should be thrown out and avoided like the plague.

[Nihil Obstat]

All this new club really needs is a solid marketing pitch. I have a few suggestions:

 

[PhuturePriest]

All this new club really needs is a solid marketing pitch. I have a few suggestions:

 

 

You post one meme and it kills the thread. :|

[let_go_let_God]

I have mixed feelings on this. I have had the opportunity to work with a variety of Troops and Adventure Clubs while working in youth ministry. There are Troops who are quite active and others that are there to teach and never give experiences.

 

The Troop that my parish charters is absolutely amazing. I have no qualms in saying that all the "boys" that are involved are truly young men. This stretches from the 17 year old Eagle Scout to the 11 year old completing his first year as a scout. Sure they have moments where they are boys and they are learning to grow, but they are awesome young men. These are a fine group of young men and leaders. Although chartered by the parish most of the leadership is Catholic and even those who are not Catholic choose to abide by Catholic guidelines when with the scouts. The Troop is roughly 60% parishioners and 40% other denominations and the families have chosen to stay with this troop because they embody all the Values of Scouting including those regarding religion. Each trip they take one scout is appointed as chaplain to lead his fellow scouts in prayer for the entire trip, whether it's to start/end the day or grace before a meal.

 

Currently the USCCB is looking into the changes and is ensuring that Scouting is still "compatible" within Catholic parishes. I will continue to pray for our Bishops that they make a well informed choice consistent with our Catholic faith.

 

That being said, I believe there are a few components missing with the Scouts of St. George. One is the opportunity for Boy Lead Activities. On the last event I helped with, as an outside volunteer, I had never seen so many young men step up and joyfully teach younger scouts skills that will help enrich their lives. Two young men from our parish, an Eagle and a Life (almost Eagle) Scout, stepped up and taught 15 younger Scouts about First Aid and CPR under the aid of a certified instructor. Did this make them First Aid Certified, no, but they were able to impart new knowledge upon them with the ability that they could. (Their First Aid Cert will come when they are older.)

 

Secondly, what about utilizing groups already in place such as the Squires, through the KoC? The author states that the Squires aren't maintained for this purpose. But what about including activities that allow for growth in faith, stewardship and all around manliness?

 

Lastly, as "charter organizations" will these first few groups acknowledge the traditions and customs from which they were derived? These groups will need to develop skills and traditions of their own but until then what structure will there be? We as Catholics are steeped in tradition, if an organization is created through those traditions which will be incorporated into the initial charter and guidelines.

 

God bless-

LGLG

[Nihil Obstat]

You post one meme and it kills the thread. :|

That is not a meme.