Dating And Discernment: Pros And Cons

[FFI Griswold]

Ave Maria!

 

Con: "My first advice is that if the young man wants to discern priesthood, then he cannot date, because you cannot “date” two women at the same time, i.e, both the girl and the priesthood. He must make a choice of which one to discern—priesthood or marriage." -from a priest from the diocese of La Crosse who continues,

 

Choose your date: As young men consider the possibility of priesthood, many will find themselves in a dating situation and are looking for help as to how to listen for the Lord. My first advice is that if the young man wants to discern priesthood, then he cannot date, because you cannot “date” two women at the same time, i.e, both the girl and the priesthood. He must make a choice of which one to discern—priesthood or marriage.

Discerning priesthood while dating: If the young man doesn’t feel ready to discern a call to priesthood and is already in a dating situation, then I challenge him to discern the possibility of marriage, but to do so with a listening and discerning heart. This means that both the young man and woman need to be honest about their joint search to discern God’s call for them. He has to be willing to share with her his openness to go wherever the Lord is calling and to ask her help to discern together. This kind of honesty, when brought into prayer, opens the door for the grace of God to work. If the Lord is calling the young man to marriage, they will come to a peace about this through their prayer and growth in love. If he is called to be a priest, then there will develop a restlessness and a sense that a change needs to take place in their relationship. Almost every year a young man will share how he feels led to stop dating because he/they discerned the call to priesthood.

Write a letter to your future spouse: There are single young people who also write a letter to the Lord and to their future spouse and renew this letter and promise every year until they meet the person God is calling them to marry. Each letter will begin with “Dear Lord, and to my future spouse…In this letter I hope to say someday to you, that I prayed for you before I knew you…I loved you before I knew you… and I was faithful to you before I knew you.” The letter goes on to share what the person has learned about love and life and faith during that year. Each year brings a new letter. Once the couple is preparing for marriage, the person writing the letter will share these letters at the “right” time. I have had a growing number of people through the years who write these letters. How would you respond if your partner did this for you?

Keep the Lord included in your relationship: The greatest sadness today is that so many young people are opting out of Marriage and choose cohabitation. When they do this, they can no longer discern their Call as the Lord is no longer the guiding presence in the relationship. It is only within a chaste relationship of dating and a mutual prayer life, that a couple can truly discern God’s Call.

Advice on dating: Often in a classroom situation young people will ask for advice on dating, I will say to them that as a priest that I have one very important principle to keep in mind besides all the other important steps in friendship and love. I answer, “If you cannot pray together as a couple, then don’t ever get into a serious relationship with one another.” If you do not know how to pray with one another, then how can you discern together if the Lord is calling you to marriage or to something else? Can you imagine someone about to be ordained a priest who doesn’t pray? This would be a contradiction. How can a man prepare for the Sacrament of Holy Orders and not do so in through a life of prayer? Impossible. But doesn’t the same go for the Sacrament of Marriage? How many couples pray together on a regular basis? How do they pray together. The best couples I know today begin with the foundation in prayer. Do you pray alone or together? Why is it important to learn how to pray as a couple and later as a family?

Ways couples pray: There are couples who attend Mass together, go to Adoration together, pray the Rosary or other devotional prayers or even part of the Liturgy of the Hours together. Some couples write a dating prayer which they recite at the end of their evening. Some couples will write a goodnight prayer/blessing for the other person and it is kept in their Bibles on their nightstands. Before she goes to bed she will take out his prayer/blessing and read it as it asks the Lord to bless her and to guard and guide their relationship together. At his house the young man will take out the prayer written by his girlfriend and will pray this prayer before he goes to bed each night. Couples will write a prayer once they marry and then frame all of these prayers and hang the prayers in their bedroom. As the children grow up, they will be told about the prayers as they come to an age of questioning about them. You can bet that when the children are teens they will, at some point, sneak into their parents’ bedroom to read these prayers. That is when the couple will teach their children the power of chastity. My parents wrote a prayer and they pray it daily. We pray it at every family gathering. When we pray we open ourselves to allow the Lord to shape and form our families and thus the saying, “The family that prays together stays together.”

What is it like to be called? People preparing for marriage will ask what it is like to be called by God to be a priest. I answer back, “What is it like to be called by God to be married. I often get a surprised look from them. Just as every priest must learn how to pray and to share how the Lord is calling him to priesthood, so too, shouldn’t every couple be able to articulate to their family and friends how the Lord is calling them to this Sacrament of Marriage? There are many couples today who are doing just that.

Discernment is a team sport: Just as preparation for priesthood takes a team of people to guide the discernment, so too, in marriage it requires a team of people to help you to grow in your discernment, Discernment begins with the couple but also includes family, mature friends, and your pastor. In the seminary it takes four to eight years of formation with many people involved to finally bring a man to priesthood. How can this kind of discernment be done more in today’s world?

 

 

Ave Maria!

 

fra John Paul

[FFI Griswold]

Ave Maria!

 

Happy feast of the Most Sacred Heart of Jesus! Jesus, meek and humble of heart, make our hearts like unto Thine!

 

Con:

"Am I allowed to date while in the seminary?
The seminary is like the engagement period for a couple: you do not date others if you desire to create a true relationship with your intended. Likewise, to truly prepare for and discern the calling to priesthood in the seminary, you should not be dating." -From the Celibacy FAQ at the diocese of Bridgeport.

 

 

Let us also implore the most pure, Immaculate Heart of Mary to guide our discernments in the way of chastity. Ave Maria!

 

fra John Paul

 

 

[FFI Griswold]

Ave Maria!

 

from Discerning Marriage as Natural Vocation by Fr. Bryce Sibley:

 

I often hear young people say they need to date in order to discern if they are called to marriage. This is simply incorrect. You may need to date to see whom exactly you should marry, but not to know if you are called to marriage as a vocation. You know this by the fact that you are a human being, that is, a man or a woman. Marriage is never a vocation that can be eliminated since it is written into our very nature.

 

Mary, Mother of Vocations, pray for us. Ave Maria!

 

fra John Paul

[FFI Griswold]

Ave Maria!

 

"Discerning between Marriage, Priesthood & Religious Life" from Franciscan Brothers Minor, basically says to first discern priesthood or religious life and put dating on hold, to make visits, receive direction, read, etc., so as to not discern with a divided heart.

 

Mary, Mother of Vocations, pray for us. Ave Maria!

 

fra John Paul

 

[thepiaheart]

I can speak from personal experience (well, the personal experience of good friends and my chaplain): Do not, do not, do not seriously discern religious life or the priesthood while dating. You risk very deeply wounding the heart of the one whom you are dating. 

Recommended: a dating fast, be it six months or a year, during which you simply refuse to date -- even if the opportunity arises -- while you give the Lord time to speak to your heart, in prayer and during visits, etc.

[FFI Griswold]

Ave Maria!

 

One of many sentiments from the saints, but here's one from Venerable Teresita Quevado (1930-1950), who was young, popular, beautiful, very active, and very outgoing,

 

A friend once told her that she would enjoy her life while she was young and later after doing all she wanted to do she would join the convent. Teresita was indignant. "How selfish you are to give God the leftovers!" she said. "Jesus has better taste than that! He wants the gift of youth with all its joys and dreams!"

 

She had a profound Marian devotion, became a model Carmelite, and died at only 20 years old.

 

Mary, Mother of Vocations, pray for us. Venerable Teresita, pray for us. Ave Maria!

 

fra John Paul

[PhuturePriest]

When I visited the seminary, I asked the seminarians about dating. They said that if I was still unsure if I was called to be a Priest then it would be okay to date, but if there comes a time when I really get the feeling that's what God wants me to do, I need to break off my relationship soon rather than later, because the longer I wait the longer it's going to hurt for the both of us, and it will hold me back from doing God's will.

Edited July 8, 2013 by FuturePriest387

[Pax_et bonum]

I think it depends on the person and his/her approach to dating and discernment. If you know you're the type that easily falls for a member of the opposite sex and are discerning religious life, you might want to do a "dating fast" to be able to focus on religious life without the distractions of dating. If you're more like me discerning religious life and haven't ever dated because you haven't met someone you've felt draw to dating, then you might want to consider dating if the right person comes along because that could be God leading you to the married life. It hasn't happened to me, but I think that's what I'd do. Thoughts?

[PhuturePriest]

I think it depends on the person and his/her approach to dating and discernment. If you know you're the type that easily falls for a member of the opposite sex and are discerning religious life, you might want to do a "dating fast" to be able to focus on religious life without the distractions of dating. If you're more like me discerning religious life and haven't ever dated because you haven't met someone you've felt draw to dating, then you might want to consider dating if the right person comes along because that could be God leading you to the married life. It hasn't happened to me, but I think that's what I'd do. Thoughts?

 

That sounds very reasonable. I don't think there's a one size-fits-all approach to anything, let alone discernment. Sister Marie dated and says she was happy she did before she entered religious life. I personally don't think I would ever be satisfied if I never dated before entering religious life. I would always wonder if I made the right choice and if I wasn't choosing religious life simply because I never experienced a romantic relationship, or I would wonder what wisdom and experience I didn't get because I never dated.

[abrideofChrist]

That sounds very reasonable. I don't think there's a one size-fits-all approach to anything, let alone discernment. Sister Marie dated and says she was happy she did before she entered religious life. I personally don't think I would ever be satisfied if I never dated before entering religious life. I would always wonder if I made the right choice and if I wasn't choosing religious life simply because I never experienced a romantic relationship, or I would wonder what wisdom and experience I didn't get because I never dated.

 

To build on this. I have priest friends who have left or may leave the priesthood because they were young, and were in relationships with females that they thought were platonic...  The rest of us could see that they were courting, but they did think they were immune to romantic love because they were priests.  Dating does help a person know what is dating behavior and what signals the opposite sex show for interest.  I really wish one young baby priest who left because of a woman had had that experience.  My guess is that he eschewed dating altogether when growing up and then going to seminary.  If I were a bishop, I'd make sure all my seminarians had dated and know how to act around women.

[Spem in alium]

That sounds very reasonable. I don't think there's a one size-fits-all approach to anything, let alone discernment. Sister Marie dated and says she was happy she did before she entered religious life. I personally don't think I would ever be satisfied if I never dated before entering religious life. I would always wonder if I made the right choice and if I wasn't choosing religious life simply because I never experienced a romantic relationship, or I would wonder what wisdom and experience I didn't get because I never dated.

 

That's interesting. I'm discerning and have never dated, and I used to feel a similar way (worrying that I was only interested in religious life because I never thought I'd date anyone). Having platonic relationships with men has really helped me and allowed me to learn a lot, and now my view has changed. My male friends have shown commitment, thoughtfulness, care and interest in their relationships with me, and so I don't feel like I've missed out on much just because I've never been physical with them. I think it's easy to doubt or question something if you've never experienced its opposite, but it seems the way to reach genuine truth is through listening to God and the Spirit's movement within.

 

I think it depends on the person and his/her approach to dating and discernment. If you know you're the type that easily falls for a member of the opposite sex and are discerning religious life, you might want to do a "dating fast" to be able to focus on religious life without the distractions of dating. If you're more like me discerning religious life and haven't ever dated because you haven't met someone you've felt draw to dating, then you might want to consider dating if the right person comes along because that could be God leading you to the married life. It hasn't happened to me, but I think that's what I'd do. Thoughts?

 

To me that shows a good level of openness :)

[AnneLine]

I think there is a HUGE difference between someone who is discerning IF God might be calling them, and someone who is actively pursuing a religious vocation to the level of being a candidate or aspirant or a seminarian!!!

 

I can't imagine someone who was engaged going out on dates... and those who are actively pursuing entrance with a specific community/seminary, etc. are ENGAGED.  There's a commitment going on, even if no promises have been made.

 

On the other hand, I agree with Sr. Marie that it only makes sense to have some experience of interacting with people of the opposite sex before entering religious life or seminary. You will be encountering people of the opposite sex after you enter... even if you are in a cloister!   You will have interactions with benefactors, etc.   It only makes sense to learn the unspoken language that is part of the communications between people.  I've run into seminarians and priests and religious sisters who don't know how to act around people... and it is not just a shy/awkward issue.  (I'm an introvert myself!)   It is that they are SCARED that somehow they could lose their vocations by interacting with 'them'.  And I don't believe it for a moment.  Ask the BlessedMother and St Joseph to watch over you, and guard your own chastity (and I don't mean in a physical sense, although, of course that is part of it) but do your own part to live 'chastely' as ALL lay persons are called to do -- single-heartedly with God at the center and apex of your life -- that is a skill that will benefit you in religious life or as a priest.

 

Prayers for all of us... we all need it!!!!

[Sister Marie]

I agree with Anne Linne 100% that there is a definite difference between actively discerning and being open to God's will that makes a difference when we are talking about dating and discernment.  I couldn't have made that distinction any better!

 

Abrideofchrist... I also agree with your points about being able to interact with members of the opposite sex by being able to recognize flirtation and dating behaviors.  I don't know that that means that everyone has to date, but I think it definitely means that everyone has to have healthy relationships with all different kinds of people before one discerns a vocation to the priesthood or religious life and evidence of this should be present in a candidate.

 

I know we are talking about dating and discernment but it seems to me like this all comes down to how we understand chastity.  While I am well aware that all are called to live chastely, I just want to say something about chastity as an evangelical counsel.  Chastity is a beautiful vow.  It gives life.  It liberates.  It opens the one who practices it for love.  Chastity is not about closing oneself off from others, protecting something precious for oneself (or even for God!), or avoiding dangers at every step.  Chastity is about relationships of love.  Chastity is about spending oneself without reserve for others (as Jesus did when he gave his very life for us).  Chastity is about fully living God's call to a radical way of life in imitation of Jesus.  Friendship, ministry, community life, and prayer are the stuff chastity is made of... not a list of "thou shall nots."  I can't give a theological commentary on the vows, I can only speak what is in my heart about them.  It saddens me to see chastity talked about in the negative so often because all the things "thou shall not do" are just the consequences of saying yes to the great gift that God gives in a vocation.  The "thou shall nots" are secondary. 

 

Anne Linne, I have also run into seminarians and sisters who don't know how to act around others and I really do feel badly for them because I doubt that what they are lacking can be learned in the seminary or novitiate.  You really can't be taught an experience.  However, I've also worked with male religious who have become my friends because of the great witness they have offered me in their religious lives.  Healthy relationships are a huge part of living the vow of chastity and they support and strengthen it.  The greatest threats to chastity are not attraction to someone, flirtation, or proximity.  The greatest threats to practicing chastity are immaturity in relationships, a lack of self-knowledge, and inability to be honest in prayer and direction.  Entering religious life or the priesthood does not mean leaving oneself behind.  It also doesn't mean repressing human sexuality.  Discernment and formation are times of transformation that continue throughout our lives as we learn and experience and walk with God and that includes our own human development. 

 

For those who are discerning, the best thing to do is to secure a spiritual director who has lived experience of the life you are discerning and to have the really honest and uncomfortable conversations about chastity as you discern and live your life fully.  They will have a wealth of materials and experiences to help you learn, grow, and listen to where and how God is calling you. 

[abrideofChrist]

Anne Linne, I have also run into seminarians and sisters who don't know how to act around others and I really do feel badly for them because I doubt that what they are lacking can be learned in the seminary or novitiate.  You really can't be taught an experience.  However, I've also worked with male religious who have become my friends because of the great witness they have offered me in their religious lives.  Healthy relationships are a huge part of living the vow of chastity and they support and strengthen it.  The greatest threats to chastity are not attraction to someone, flirtation, or proximity.  The greatest threats to practicing chastity are immaturity in relationships, a lack of self-knowledge, and inability to be honest in prayer and direction.  Entering religious life or the priesthood does not mean leaving oneself behind.  It also doesn't mean repressing human sexuality.  Discernment and formation are times of transformation that continue throughout our lives as we learn and experience and walk with God and that includes our own human development.

 

Bingo!  That is exactly the reason for dating prior to entering the seminary or convent.  A lot of times people are scared that they will "lose" their "vocation" if they  date.  I think dating may have helped my priest friend who was sitting next to me at a celebration and whenever he spoke to me (sitting briefly at the place to his right), moved his head to the person at his left, so that all I saw was the back of his head when he spoke to me.  A date would have knocked that behavior out of him pretty quickly.

[Chiquitunga]

I think there is a HUGE difference between someone who is discerning IF God might be calling them, and someone who is actively pursuing a religious vocation to the level of being a candidate or aspirant or a seminarian!!!

 

I can't imagine someone who was engaged going out on dates... and those who are actively pursuing entrance with a specific community/seminary, etc. are ENGAGED.  There's a commitment going on, even if no promises have been made.

 

This. Two years before Blessed Elizabeth of the Trinity entered Carmel, her reaction in her journal to an offered marriage proposal was, "My heart is no longer free. I have given it to the King of kings, and it is no longer mine to give away." (He is My Heaven, pg 39) <-- love that book!! <3

 

On the other hand, I agree with Sr. Marie that it only makes sense to have some experience of interacting with people of the opposite sex before entering religious life or seminary. You will be encountering people of the opposite sex after you enter... even if you are in a cloister!   You will have interactions with benefactors, etc.   It only makes sense to learn the unspoken language that is part of the communications between people.  I've run into seminarians and priests and religious sisters who don't know how to act around people... and it is not just a shy/awkward issue.  (I'm an introvert myself!)   It is that they are SCARED that somehow they could lose their vocations by interacting with 'them'.  And I don't believe it for a moment.  Ask the BlessedMother and St Joseph to watch over you, and guard your own chastity (and I don't mean in a physical sense, although, of course that is part of it) but do your own part to live 'chastely' as ALL lay persons are called to do -- single-heartedly with God at the center and apex of your life -- that is a skill that will benefit you in religious life or as a priest.

 

Prayers for all of us... we all need it!!!!

 

I agree with this as well, although I do not understand the argument that seems to be being made here that in order to learn how to have healthy/normal, etc. relationships/interactions with the opposite sex you need to have discerned marriage with someone (aka, dating) I disagree with that. I have gone to public schools all my life and have had plenty of guy friends but never specifically dated anyone, and I don't feel I am lacking in learning how to interact normally with men at all.

 

Another thing I wanted to mention here is the great blessing of having brothers and a good relationship with one's father. In my relationships with guys my own age, I have always related them to my brothers, and I think it would be very different if I didn't have them.

 

It really isn't necessary to date/have a romantic relationship with someone in order to learn how to have good relationships/interactions with the opposite sex.