Dating And Discernment (from The Saints)

[FFI Griswold]

Ave Maria!

 

Dating and discernment is a very common issue among discerners, and I was wondering if anyone had any quotes, stories, or anything on the lives of the saints that may pertain to the dangers of dating while discerning a vocation to the priesthood or religious life. Perhaps even excerpts from encyclicals or other documents of the Church, or from Popes. The problem is that there does not seem to be anything explicitly written from the saints on dating, so one may need to draw from things like the dangers of the world, preserving purity, the value of religious life, etc.

 

I have some materials, mostly from St. Alphonsus on religious life, so I will post those and continue searching, reading, and picking minds in hopes of making a pamphlet or website on this critical vocation issue. Thank you all, God bless, and Ave Maria!

 

Mary, Mother of Vocations, pray for us! Mother Most Pure, pray for us!

 

In the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary,

 

Friar John Paul

Edited June 5, 2013 by FFI Griswold

[arfink]

Dangers? Well, maybe while you're in a seminary or a convent or some such you'd have issues doing dating, but really, there is no danger to experience that during the process of discernment. I would be very worried about a young man or woman who decided to chase a religious vocation without at least having some inkling about marriage first. Otherwise you wind up with nuns or priests who leave their vocations to go be married because they were hasty and didn't fully investigate their options.

[Sister Marie]

I agree with arfink. I dated before entering the convent and I can honestly say that those good experiences strengthened my resolve to enter religious life. Deeply caring for someone and being cared for by them is an experience that is good and teaches compassion, responsibility, love, sacrifice, modesty, compromise, and a multitude of other virtues. Experiencing that good while still feeling called to another great good, religious life, is a great gift for a vocation. It can really solidify and strengthen discernment. I guess dating someone who doesn't support you in your quest toward holiness would be harmful to your vocation to religious life... But it would be equally damaging to every other vocation: marriage, single life, priesthood...!

There is definitely a time in discernment when one needs to stop dating but I think the focus of that should be the response to Gods voice within, not as a practice run or a discipline. I think it's a natural progression in accepting ones vocation.

I would be careful applying the words of saints without regard for cultural differences. People didn't date in Italy in the 1700s when Alphonsus was alive and writing prolifically. He also wrote in a very romantic and flowery style because that was the style of the time. Alphonsus is the patron of my community, founded by Redemptorists, and I've read and studied many of his works. I think if we asked Alphonsus now, he would focus on the love of God and good discernment and prayer as a response to that great love, not rigid rules and regulations.

God speaks differently to each of us. Our experiences, dating or not, are part of who we are and become part of the gift we give to God in religious life.

[Spem in alium]

The dating issue is interesting for me. I'm 21 and discerning. Up till recently I considered marriage as my calling and really wanted to be a mother. These day I'm not dismissing it, but feeling more and more that religious life is my call. I've also never dated, never been kissed, etc, mainly because I didn't see the point of dating during school. I have a few male friends and have had a few crushes in the past, but nothing really happened. I don't see my lack of relationship as a real problem because I've never felt ready to date, but some people have responded to the news of my discernment with saying: "Don't you want to experience dating just once to know what it's like?" My response is: not really. I don't see the point of dating just for the sake of it, and besides I already know the perfect guy :P

 

Basically, what I'm wondering by all this is: what would you say to someone like me who is discerning and feels as though they are becoming more sure of a religious calling but has never dated? Would you advise such a person to try and experience romantic relationships regardless?

 

[FFI Griswold]

Ave Maria!

 

from Counsels on the Religious Vocation By St. Alphonsus Liguori (pages 87-123 of Miscellany) [emphasis mine]

 

I. We ought to conform to the Designs of God in the Choice of a State of Life, whatever it may be.

 

We must remark that in the world this doctrine of the vocation is not much studied by some persons. They think it to be all the same, whether they live in the state to which God calls them, or in that which they choose of their own inclination, and therefore so many live a bad life and beaver dam themselves. But it is certain that this is the principal point with regard to the acquisition of eternal life. He who disturbs this order and breaks this chain of salvation will not be saved. With all his labors and with all the good he may do, St. Augustine will tell him, “Thou runnest well, but out of the way,” that is, out of the way in which God has called you to walk for attaining to salvation.

 

II. The Vocation to the Religious State. How Important it is to follow it promptly.

 

1. MISERY TO WHICH ONE EXPOSES ONE'S SELF BY NOT CORRESPONDING TO IT.

The divine call to a more perfect life is undoubtedly a special grace, and a very great one, which God does not give to all; hence he has much reason to be indignant against those who despise it. How greatly would not a prince think himself offended if he should call one of his vassals to serve him near his person, and this vassal should refuse to obey the call! And should God not resent such conduct? Oh, he resents it but too much, and threatens such persons by saying, Woe to him that gainsayeth his Maker. The word Woe in Scripture signifies eternal damnation. The chastisement of the disobedient will begin even in this life, in which he will always be unquiet, for, says Job, Who hath resisted Him and hath had peace? Therefore he will be deprived of those abundant and efficacious helps necessary to lead a good life. For which reason Habert, a divine, writes: “He will with great difficulty be able to work out his salvation.” He will with great difficulty save himself; for, being like a member out of his proper place, he will with great difficulty be able to live well. “In the body of the Church,” adds the learned author, “he will be like a limb of the human body out of its place, which may be able to perform its functions, but only with difficulty and in an awkward manner.” Whence he concludes: “And though, absolutely speaking, he may be saved, he will with difficulty enter upon and advance in the road, and use the means of salvation.” The same thing is taught by St.Bernard and St. Leo. St. Gregory, writing to the Emperor Maurice, who by an edict had forbidden soldiers to become religious, says that this was an unjust law, which shut the gates of paradise to many, because many would save themselves in religion who would otherwise perish in the world.

 

Remarkable is the case related by F. Lancicius. There was in the Roman college a youth of great talents. Whilst he was making the spiritual exercises, he asked his confessor whether it was a sin not to correspond with the vocation to the religious life. The confessor replied that in itself it was no grievous sin, because this is a thing of counsel and not of precept, but that one would expose one s salvation to great danger, as it had happened to many, who for this reason were finally damned. He did not obey the call. He went to study in Macerata, where he soon began to omit prayer and holy Communion, and finally gave himself up to a bad life. Soon after, coming one night from the house of a wicked woman, he was mortally wounded by a rival; certain priests ran to his assistance, but he expired before they arrived, and, moreover, in front of the college. By this circumstance God wished to show that this chastisement came upon him for having neglected his vocation.

 

How many other similar examples are there, not to be found in books! And how many unhappy youths shall we not see damned on the day of judgment for not having followed their vocation! Such are rebels to the divine light, as the Holy Ghost says: They have been rebellious to the light, they have not known His ways,and they will be justly punished by losing the light; and because they would not walk in the way shown them by the Lord, they shall walk without light in that chosen by their own caprice, and perish. Behold, I will utter My Spirit to you. Behold the vocation, but because they fail to follow it, God adds: Because I called and you refused; . . . you have despised all My counsel . . . I also will laugh in your destruction, and I will mock when that shall come upon you which you feared? Then shall they call upon Me, and I will not hear: they shall rise in the morning, and shall not find Me. Because they have hated instruction and received not the fear of the Lord. Nor consented to My counsel, but despised all My reproof** And this signifies that God will not hear the prayers of him who has neglected to obey his voice. St. Augustine says, “They who have despised the will of God which invited them, shall feel the will of God when it becomes its own avenger.”

 

Ave Maria!

 

fra John Paul

 

[FFI Griswold]

Ave Maria!

 

I thought this was a good one to add before night prayer..

 

from Counsels on the Religious Vocation By St. Alphonsus Liguori (pages 87-123 of Miscellany) [emphasis mine]

 

III. Means to be Employed for Preserving a Religious Vocation in the world.

 

He, then, who wishes to be faithful to the divine call ought not only to resolve to follow it, but to follow it promptly, if he does not wish to expose himself to the evident danger of losing his vocation; and in case he should by necessity be forced to wait, he ought to use all diligence to preserve it, as the most precious jewel he could have.

 

The means to preserve vocation are three in number: secrecy, prayer, and recollection.

 

1. SECRECY.

 

First, generally speaking, he must keep his vocation secret from everybody except his spiritual Father, because commonly the men of the world scruple not to say to young men, who are called to the religious state, that one may serve God everywhere, and therefore in the world also. And it is wonderful that such propositions come sometimes out of the mouth of priests, and even of religious; but of such religious only as have either become so without vocation, or do not know what vocation is. Yes, without doubt, he who is not called to the religious state may serve God in every place, but not he who is called to it, and then from his own inclination wishes to remain in the world; such a one, as I have said above, can with difficulty serve God and lead a good life.

 

 

Ave Maria!

[Crucesignata]

Pro me I have never really felt the need to date since I am about 99.9repeating % sure that I am called to religious life.  I find that spending quality time with friends and in prayer and volunteering and working have kept the drama out and the peace and clarity in.  :)

[Kateri89]

The dating issue is interesting for me. I'm 21 and discerning. Up till recently I considered marriage as my calling and really wanted to be a mother. These day I'm not dismissing it, but feeling more and more that religious life is my call. I've also never dated, never been kissed, etc, mainly because I didn't see the point of dating during school. I have a few male friends and have had a few crushes in the past, but nothing really happened. I don't see my lack of relationship as a real problem because I've never felt ready to date, but some people have responded to the news of my discernment with saying: "Don't you want to experience dating just once to know what it's like?" My response is: not really. I don't see the point of dating just for the sake of it, and besides I already know the perfect guy :P

Basically, what I'm wondering by all this is: what would you say to someone like me who is discerning and feels as though they are becoming more sure of a religious calling but has never dated? Would you advise such a person to try and experience romantic relationships regardless?

This pretty much sums up my life too :)

[Kateri89]

The dating issue is interesting for me. I'm 21 and discerning. Up till recently I considered marriage as my calling and really wanted to be a mother. These day I'm not dismissing it, but feeling more and more that religious life is my call. I've also never dated, never been kissed, etc, mainly because I didn't see the point of dating during school. I have a few male friends and have had a few crushes in the past, but nothing really happened. I don't see my lack of relationship as a real problem because I've never felt ready to date, but some people have responded to the news of my discernment with saying: "Don't you want to experience dating just once to know what it's like?" My response is: not really. I don't see the point of dating just for the sake of it, and besides I already know the perfect guy :P

Basically, what I'm wondering by all this is: what would you say to someone like me who is discerning and feels as though they are becoming more sure of a religious calling but has never dated? Would you advise such a person to try and experience romantic relationships regardless?

This pretty much sums up my life too :)

[Mary's Child]

This pretty much sums up my life too :)

Spem and Sr Kateri I would say that if you do not feel drawn to dating don't do it. This can lead to a great deal of unnecessary pain and suffering later on.

 

As for me I did date a little but was never really that into it, I only seriously dated 2 people. It seems to me that Jesus was preserving me for himself in a lot of ways even when I was not yet discerning my vocation. Then I was "captured by love" and I can not imagine dating anyone else ever again.

[Spem in alium]

Spem and Sr Kateri I would say that if you do not feel drawn to dating don't do it. This can lead to a great deal of unnecessary pain and suffering later on.

 

As for me I did date a little but was never really that into it, I only seriously dated 2 people. It seems to me that Jesus was preserving me for himself in a lot of ways even when I was not yet discerning my vocation. Then I was "captured by love" and I can not imagine dating anyone else ever again.

 

Thanks MC. That would be my first instinct, but then I have people telling me that I need to have experience from both sides (dating and not dating) in order to make a choice. I don't really agree with that. Experience does make certain things easier, but what about Sisters who joined the convent right after they left school? They didn't have experience of the world after they finished school, so can they really have made a good choice? I say of course! It's not just about experience, it's about listening to yourself and to God. I really feel what you say in the second part of your post. Looking back on life I  do feel as though Jesus has set me apart for himself. My truest fulfillment has come from him, and I'm such a lover of being contemplative and in prayer that I can't really see myself being apart from that - as I know dating someone would push me to be something else.

 

Pro me I have never really felt the need to date since I am about 99.9repeating % sure that I am called to religious life.  I find that spending quality time with friends and in prayer and volunteering and working have kept the drama out and the peace and clarity in.   :)

 

These are things I do a lot too. I spend time building up my friendships, because I feel I can gain a lot from them, perhaps more so than from a significant other.

[Spem in alium]

Also:
 

This pretty much sums up my life too :)

It's nice to know someone has a similar experience :) 

[Pax_et bonum]

I've never dated. I haven't met a guy I wanted to date even at college. If I did meet such a person, I would definitely have to consider the situation, but dating for the sake of having the experience of dating just sounds like use. You'd be using the other person as an object for solely your own benefit. Relationship skills are important, but they don't have to be gained through romantic relationships.

[Mary's Child]

I've never dated. I haven't met a guy I wanted to date even at college. If I did meet such a person, I would definitely have to consider the situation, but dating for the sake of having the experience of dating just sounds like use. You'd be using the other person as an object for solely your own benefit. Relationship skills are important, but they don't have to be gained through romantic relationships.

Exactly if you feel called to the religious life and not dating please trust your heart.  Dating for the sake of doing it for the experience is unkind , dishonest, and can lead to problems that you have to deal with later. In my case I was 19 and had never dated anyone and I figured I needed to get on track since my mom and older sister had both met their husbands before then. So I gave myself a month to "find someone" I did and it did not end well at all. Almost 8 years later I still have issues from this so if you do not feel called to seek a relationship with a man dont its so much easier to avoid this than deal with the consequences.

[Mary's Child]

Thanks MC. That would be my first instinct, but then I have people telling me that I need to have experience from both sides (dating and not dating) in order to make a choice. I don't really agree with that. Experience does make certain things easier, but what about Sisters who joined the convent right after they left school? They didn't have experience of the world after they finished school, so can they really have made a good choice? I say of course! It's not just about experience, it's about listening to yourself and to God. I really feel what you say in the second part of your post. Looking back on life I  do feel as though Jesus has set me apart for himself. My truest fulfillment has come from him, and I'm such a lover of being contemplative and in prayer that I can't really see myself being apart from that - as I know dating someone would push me to be something else.

Yes and it is great that you know this don't lose sight of it no matter what others may say (see my post above)