The Habit Of Poor Clare Colettines Before Vatican Ii

[graciandelamadrededios]

 

Okay, something else I've been wanting to ask you about too.. When I went to the clothing of Sr. Mary Agnes at the Rockford PCCs last year, I got a chance to speak for a while with their current Abbess, Mother Dominica - http://www.cloisteredlife.com/2011/12/blackberries-or-not-women-keep-coming-to-the-poor-clares/

 

We got into talking about St. Teresa and she told me there had been a monastery of PCCs in Avila at the time when she was making her first foundation and that she had really admired the fact that they were barefoot and said she wanted that for her reformed branch too, but was not granted permission for it (I think I remember she, Mother Dominica, said it was her spiritual director at the time who was not in favor of it) I have never read this before in any book, have you? I find this very interesting! I almost wonder if there is some connection between this and the term "Discalced" although I know that term is used by a variety of communities (at least I have heard of Discalced Franciscans) to simply mean they are a reformed branch. It does make me wonder though. :detective:

 

 

 

Mother Dominica is right, there was a monastery of Coletinas in Avila during the time of St. Teresa.  Also she had met St. Peter of Alcantara who founded the Discalced Franciscans; an Order who is no longer in existence due to their brutal austerities and imprudent penances practices by its members.  See page 145 and 147 of "Journey to Carith."

 

I never heard of St. Teresa wanting to join the Coletinas but I have been told that she incorporated to her reform some of the customs of other strict monasteries in Avila during her time.  Also, St. Teresa was extremely attracted to the Carmelite way of life of the Monastery of the Incarnation and later, she founded a monastery of the reform for the Nuns.  Also, St. Teresa understood and loved the eremitical aspect of Carmel, something that Poor Clares does not promote.

 

There are other Orders who adapted a "Discalced" way of life and its not exclusive to Franciscans or Carmelites alone.  After the Council of Trent, some orders reformed their branch and to signify that they were from a reformed branched, they adopted wearing sandals.  Did St. Teresa admire the reform of St. Colette?  Yes, and she also admired other Orders who embraced the "discalced" way of life; not just the Coletinas.

 

I wrote several years ago:

 

The practice of wearing sandals dates back during the Council of Trent which calls for reform of religious orders during the the time of Protestant Reformation.

Going barefoot or wearing sandals instead of an expensive shoes signifies that the monks and nuns have accepted the reform. Discalced (unshod) is synonymous with reform during that time.

As for the Carmelites, St. Teresa initiated a reform when she was a nun of the monastery of the Incarnation in Avila which houses 180 Nuns including their servants. Rich and affluent Nuns (most of them have no vocation at all) has big cells which contains, kitchen, living room, recieving area for visitors. Poor Nuns occupies small cells available in the community dormitory. While the rich Nuns were busy entertaining their visitors in the parlor, their poor sisters are compelled to sell some thing what they grow in their community vegetables or seek support by going out and beg food and money from their respective families.
 

Some Carmelite Monasteries of that time may have fervent and holy religious but the Carmelites in Spain are different. They lead a life like Beatas as they were formerly known before they ask the Prior General of Carmelites for reception to the Second Order. They retained the practices of a Beata even if they are already incorporated in the second order.

When Teresa lead her reformed group to a tiny convent in St. Joseph in Avila , she designed the habit using a rough brown frieze or horse blanket. The abolished the elaborate folds of the habit, veils and mantles. Instead of shoes (now called Calced Carmelites) favored by her former companions in Incarnation, they opted to wear hemp sandals which were called "alpargatas." They are now identified as Discalced Carmelites. To avoid crowding in a monastery, she originally wanted to have a small group of 13 Nuns per monastery. They increased the numbers to 21 some months or years after.

After the success of Teresa's reform, the Calced Carmelites adopted some of her teachings and they too have reformed their monasteries. The Calced Carmelite Nuns were given option to wear sandals or shoes according to their needs.

[Chiquitunga]

 

Mother Dominica is right, there was a monastery of Coletinas in Avila during the time of St. Teresa.  Also she had met St. Peter of Alcantara who founded the Discalced Franciscans; an Order who is no longer in existence due to their brutal austerities and imprudent penances practices by its members.  See page 145 and 147 of "Journey to Carith."

 

I never heard of St. Teresa wanting to join the Coletinas but I have been told that she incorporated to her reform some of the customs of other strict monasteries in Avila during her time.  Also, St. Teresa was extremely attracted to the Carmelite way of life of the Monastery of the Incarnation and later, she founded a monastery of the reform for the Nuns.  Also, St. Teresa understood and loved the eremitical aspect of Carmel, something that Poor Clares does not promote.

 

 

Thank you so much Gracian! Yes, I too never heard of St. Teresa wanting to actually join the Colettines, no. Just from Mother Dominica, that she had at one point desired to go barefoot like them. It's so neat they were in Avila at the time.. and that she took note of what other strict monasteries were doing to incorporate into her reform. I love the eremitical aspect of Carmel too.. :pray:

 

Thanks again for sharing all that you've researched on monastic history/communities! :bible:

[graciandelamadrededios]

Thank you so much Gracian! Yes, I too never heard of St. Teresa wanting to actually join the Colettines, no. Just from Mother Dominica, that she had at one point desired to go barefoot like them. It's so neat they were in Avila at the time.. and that she took note of what other strict monasteries were doing to incorporate into her reform. I love the eremitical aspect of Carmel too.. :pray:

 

Thanks again for sharing all that you've researched on monastic history/communities! :bible:

 

You're welcome Chiqui!

 

She admired the community of Coletinas being barefoot and but this does not mean wanting to join them.  Eremitical has never been a part of a Poor Clare way of life.  In St. Teresa's Carmel, she stipulated that there must be no common work room.

 

By the way, some of the "old" Discalced Carmelite Nuns in Manila go barefoot.  I read it in a book about the apparition of Lipa Carmel; the visionary was told to drink the water used to wash the feet of the Mother Prioress and Mother Prioress was very uneasy because the Nuns go barefoot within the monastery.  There are some Nuns in Manila Carmel who walks about the monastery barefoot.

[Chiquitunga]

You're welcome Chiqui!

 

She admired the community of Coletinas being barefoot and but this does not mean wanting to join them.  Eremitical has never been a part of a Poor Clare way of life.  In St. Teresa's Carmel, she stipulated that there must be no common work room.

 

By the way, some of the "old" Discalced Carmelite Nuns in Manila go barefoot.  I read it in a book about the apparition of Lipa Carmel; the visionary was told to drink the water used to wash the feet of the Mother Prioress and Mother Prioress was very uneasy because the Nuns go barefoot within the monastery.  There are some Nuns in Manila Carmel who walks about the monastery barefoot.

 

Very interesting about Manila Carmel. Thanks for sharing!

 

About the Colettines, yes, I never heard or thought St. Teresa wanted to join them, just to incorporate the barefeet into her reform. This is all Mother Dominica said to me. Just want to make sure to make that clear. :like:

[graciandelamadrededios]

Very interesting about Manila Carmel. Thanks for sharing!

 

About the Colettines, yes, I never heard or thought St. Teresa wanted to join them, just to incorporate the barefeet into her reform. This is all Mother Dominica said to me. Just want to make sure to make that clear. :like:

 

 

Oh yes, St. Teresa incorporated some practices of other monastic communities to her reform and still keep it very Carmelite.

 

It was Lipa Carmel who were described in a book as barefooted before Vatican II.  I heard from an "old tradition" Nun from Carmel that they are barefooted inside the monastery and saw some photos of Nuns barefooted in their 75th anniversary book.

Edited June 9, 2013 by graciandelamadrededios

[graciandelamadrededios]

Spanish Poor Clare Nun: with Scapular

 

 

Venerable Sor Clara de la Concepción Sánchez García (1902-1973), monja Clarisa

 

 

 

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

And Dominicans wore shoes as a sign of being obedient to the Church!

The Council of Montpelier around 1200 decreed that Catholic preachers were to wear shoes because the heretic Cathar sects were saying they were following the Gospel strictly as opposed to the Catholics (personal interpretation, in other words) by not wearing shoes or sandals. So, St. Dominic would go barefoot to save his shoes and then when he got close to a town put his shoes on! Up until the new constitutions of 1971 Dominican nuns always wore shoes. Sandals were not allowed. Now they are much to the relief of many. Stockings are also a Dominican custom. I never thought much about it until I actually always had to wear stockings, even in the heat of the summer.

[graciandelamadrededios]

Scapulars are not the usual part of the habit of Poor Clares.  

 

However, there were communities of Poor Clares who were originally Third Order Regular Cloistered Sisters who later on, adapted the Primitive Rule of St. Clare but they never changed the habit.  The Franciscan Nuns of Perpetual Adoration, now PCPA, were founded from TOR Cloistered Sisters.  

[truthfinder]

Gracian - would you know why the sister in the picture you posted has 5 knots on her cincture?

[graciandelamadrededios]

I have no ideal but it may be more than 5 knots. 

 

I know of one Order who took the spirituality of the Franciscans who have 10 knotted cords to correspond the 10 Virtues of the Blessed Virgin Mary; they are the Annonciades.

 

Poor Clare Colettines has 4 knots on theirs for Poverty, Chastity, Obedience, and Enclosure.

 

 

[brandelynmarie]

And Dominicans wore shoes as a sign of being obedient to the Church!
The Council of Montpelier around 1200 decreed that Catholic preachers were to wear shoes because the heretic Cathar sects were saying they were following the Gospel strictly as opposed to the Catholics (personal interpretation, in other words) by not wearing shoes or sandals. So, St. Dominic would go barefoot to save his shoes and then when he got close to a town put his shoes on! Up until the new constitutions of 1971 Dominican nuns always wore shoes. Sandals were not allowed. Now they are much to the relief of many. Stockings are also a Dominican custom. I never thought much about it until I actually always had to wear stockings, even in the heat of the summer.

Practical man! And here I thought he did it to exemplify a poverty that the Cathars would understand! :hehe2: I learn so much on here. :blush:

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

Practical man! And here I thought he did it to exemplify a poverty that the Cathars would understand! :hehe2: I learn so much on here. :blush:

 

YIKES! I meant CATHARS not CATHOLICS!

[graciandelamadrededios]

St. Joan of Valois  (former Queen of France and Duchess of Berry) - Foundress of the the Order of the Annunciation of the Blessed Virgin Mary

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Annociades of St. Joan of Valois

 

 

 

 

 

 

They follow the Rule of the Ten Virtues of the Blessed Virgin Mary (composed by a Franciscan Friar)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[graciandelamadrededios]

Spanish Poor Clare Nuns before Vatican II - with scapulars and it looks like they had Lay Sisters

 

 

 

 

[graciandelamadrededios]

Spanish Poor Clares after Vatican II - not sure why there are women wearing Francisan Friars habit