The Habit Of Poor Clare Colettines Before Vatican Ii

[graciandelamadrededios]

Praised be Jesu Christ!

 

Your welcome my dear.

 

The Franciscan Sisters, T.O.R. of Penance of the Sorrowful Mother that you mentioned, are they Third Order Cloistered Sisters?  Just curious.  TOR Cloistered Sisters is very well known outside TOR Family.

 

Be assured of my prayers for your vocation.

 

 

[Kathleen777]

The Franciscan, T.O.R. Sisters of the Sorrowful Mother are not cloistered. 

 

[graciandelamadrededios]

The Franciscan, T.O.R. Sisters of the Sorrowful Mother are not cloistered. 

 

I see. :saint2:

 

Thank you for the info!

[Lumiere]

 

Nice photos, their habit looks like German or Dutch Franciscan Sisters TOR.

 

I believe they used to be Franciscan Nuns and later adopted the Rule of St. Clare. 

 

The Poor Clares of Lynton

The Poor Clares came to Lynton in 1904 from Rennes in Brittany, when there was religious persecution in France and many convents were being closed. The nuns arrived on
8th December 1903 at the invitation of the Abbess of the Franciscan nuns in Woodchester to seek a suitable place for a new monastery to which the other sisters could come if their monastery was closed The five sisters lived their own rule in a separate part of the convent helping with the laundry in return for the hospitality given them. None of them spoke English and it is hard to see how they could have made progress in their plan without outside help.

In March 1904 this came as a result of a retreat arranged for them, given by a Fr Hilary OFM. On the last day of the retreat, the 19th March, he offered mass asking St Joseph’s help to find a new home for the sisters. From Woodchester he traveled to Burnham on Sea where he dined with the chaplain of the La Retraite sisters to whom he was to give a retreat. Over the meal Fr Lean confided his dream of setting up a contemplative monastery in Lynton where his family lived, stating his preference for Poor Clares.

The sequel was by no means straightforward. Lynton had virtually no catholic residents who could support the sisters and the location was extremely isolated. On viewing the area they were reluctant to accept the offer. However when nothing else came up they decided to trust in the providence of God and accept.

They arrived in Lynmouth where a house had been rented for them in time for the feast of St Clare, staying there for five years while a convent and adjoining church was built for them in Lynton. Fr Lean bought the land and built the church, also giving the greater part of the money for the building of the monastery. The church is Italianate in design and includes a Renaissance age high altar transported from Rome complete with relics of several martyrs and a sanctuary built with much multicolored Italian marble. However the chapel of the sisters is much simpler in style.

The whole site had to be cut out of the hillside, so the building boasts a first floor cloister garden while the enclosure garden is reached from a door leading out of the second floor dormitory. It also means that we enjoy spectacular views of the surrounding countryside and sea.

The sisters moved into their new home on the eve of the feast of St Joseph in 1910 and the monastic enclosure was set up on 8th September in the same year. Our community now consists of ten sisters aged from 46 to 86 and includes one extern sisters. We still keep in contact with our sisters in Rennes.

 

 

More history here and here.

 

 

[graciandelamadrededios]

More history here and here.

 

Thank you!  They were established as Third Order Regular Nuns and probably has adopted the Rule of St. Clare and transferred to the Second Order.

Edited June 6, 2013 by graciandelamadrededios

[Chiquitunga]

Most of the Third Order Regular of St. Francis wear scapulars to set them apart from First Order and Second Order.  You can see this on the photos of the Fransican Sisters in the USA before Vatican II.  The same can be said for Third Order Regular of St. Francis - Cloistered.  The Franciscan Nuns of the Blessed Sacrament now called Poor Clares of Perpetual Adoration started of as TOR Cloistered Sisters in Troyes, France.  A Polish Lady entered the convent in Troyes and subsequently founded a convent in Poland but she decided to adapt the Rule of St. Clare and went back to Troyes to tell the Superiors there.  The Troyes Nuns remained under TOR but the Polish foundation and its daughter houses adapted the Rule of St. Clare.  When a foundation was made in the USA, the Nuns were all under the Rule of St. Clare.  Later, after Vatican II, Troyes adapted the Rule of St. Clare.

 

The brown scapular in the Franciscan Order, I think, is not Carmelite inspiration and St. Francis never promoted the scapular.  I could ask more about this.

 

Mother Jeronima of the Assumption is not Colettine and I dont know why she was referred to as Colettine in Wiki  She founded the first monastery for cloistered women in the South East Asia, if not the Far East; she established the monastery of Poor Clares in the Philippines.  The monastery where she come from, which Toledo professed the mitigated Rule of St. Clare and Colette's reform professed the Primitive Rule of St. Clare.  I have a biography of her sent by the Poor Clare Nuns in Quezon City.  Their original monastery in Intramuros were destroyed during the war and the Clarissas as we call them transferred to QC.  She was never referred to as Colettine by the Poor Clare Nuns in Manila.  That portrait of hers was painted by the famous Velazquez.

 

By the way, the Capuchin Poor Clares used to follow Constitutions of St. Colette with some modification before Vatican II but they never adopted the kerchief and they retained the scapulars.

 

Thank you so much Gracian! That is really neat to learn. Okay, question... did the Capuchin Poor Clares start off as TOR then, since they retained the scapular?

 

Also, regarding St. Francis and Brown Scapular, yes you're right, he wouldn't have promoted it since its origins were a little after his time. It might be interesting to ask them though if they have a particular name for it, like scapular of St. Francis or something. 

[graciandelamadrededios]

Thank you so much Gracian! That is really neat to learn. Okay, question... did the Capuchin Poor Clares start off as TOR then, since they retained the scapular?

 

Also, regarding St. Francis and Brown Scapular, yes you're right, he wouldn't have promoted it since its origins were a little after his time. It might be interesting to ask them though if they have a particular name for it, like scapular of St. Francis or something. 

 

 

Thank you so much Gracian! That is really neat to learn. Okay, question... did the Capuchin Poor Clares start off as TOR then, since they retained the scapular?

 

Also, regarding St. Francis and Brown Scapular, yes you're right, he wouldn't have promoted it since its origins were a little after his time. It might be interesting to ask them though if they have a particular name for it, like scapular of St. Francis or something. 

 

Yes! The foundress of the Capuchin Poor Clare Nuns, Blessed Maria Longo, is a member of the Third Order of St. Francis.

 

Colettines and Capuchin Poor Clares

The order suffered very much during the Great Schism

of the West (1378-1417), which was responsible for the general

decline of discipline. But God raised up a reformer, St. Colette of

Corbie (1381-1447) in Picardy, France. Her great life’s work was

the reform of the Poor Clares. In 1406, Benedict XIII appointed

her reformer of the whole order and gave her the office of

Abbess General over all convents she should establish or reform.

She founded 17 new monasteries to which, in addition to the

Rule of St. Clare, she gave constitutions and regulations of her

own, which were confirmed by Pius II. This is the origin of the

Colettine Poor Clares.

In the 16th century, at Naples, Italy, Blessed Maria Longo,

a member of the Third Order of St. Francis, had built a convent

and founded a community of Third Order Franciscan Sisters.

When their direction was given over to the Capuchins, the friars

advised the Sisters to adopt the primitive rule of St. Clare, which

they did in 1538. They received constitutions based on those of

the Capuchin friars and were placed under the jurisdiction of the

Capuchin vicar-general: the Capuchin Poor Clares were born.

 

taken from:

http://www.ecclesiamilitans.com/capuchin_poor_clares.pdf

[Guest Allie]

Getting a little bored on the plane.  Hope this isn't too off topic but I am thrilled to find it.

http://www.boston-catholic-journal.com/what-happens-at-the-solemn-profession-of-a-nun.pdf

Enjoy!

 

[Alberto Guimaraes]

Peace and Good!    :saint2: 

Here are two links to Sisters Capuchins of Nazareth:    :nun3: 

 

http://www.cnsisters.com/

 

http://www.capuchinsisters.com/

 

 

Jesus, Mary and Francis be with you, keep you and bless you!    :nunpray: 

Br. Alberto Guimaraes SFO

Secular Franciscan Fraternity of Braga - Portugal

Edited June 6, 2013 by Alberto Guimaraes

[Chiquitunga]

Gracian, thank you very much! That is really great to learn about the Capuchin Poor Clares! I did not realize that, nor again did I realize this regarding the scapular and TOR and many of them adopting the Rule of St. Clare. I have a devotion to a couple Clarisse Cappuccine :heart:

 

 

St. Veronica Giuliani (never seen this painting of her before) ~ http://www.santaveronicagiuliani.it

 

 

 

 

 

Servant of God, Sr. Consolata Betrone ~ Jesus, Mary I love you! Save souls!

 

 

Actually, now that I think of it, I have heard of a TOR cloistered community that made this change, the Drumshambo Poor Clares! http://poor-clares.com/drumshanbo  And they have the scapular! I'm learning :like: They are really praying for new vocations there. They've been adoring the Blessed Sacrament 24/7 since 1870!! :pray:

 

Okay, another question, are there still TOR cloistered communities out there that didn't make the switch to the Rule of St. Clare? The article you posted above from the Monastery of St. Anne in Foligno is from 1984, so they could have changed since then. Also are these TOR cloistered communities under Papal Enclosure and do they profess Solemn Vows, do you know?

 

Thank you!

[graciandelamadrededios]

Yes, there are still existing Third Order Regular of St. Francis - Cloistered Sisters.  They are mostly in Italy, Spain and in Poland.  I have communicated with one of the TOR Cloistered Sisters in Spain and they used to wear blue habit in honor of the Immaculate Conception and that was worn before Vatican II.  Their monastery is dedicated to her so they have blue scapular but it does not follow that all TOR wears blue scapular.  The TOR Cloistered Nuns in Poland are Bernardine Franciscans or Nuns of the Third Order Regular of St. Francis of Asissi - OSFB.  They have several monasteries in Poland such as:

 

http://www.bernardynki.diecezja.tarnow.pl/

 

http://archidiecezja.lodz.pl/bernardynki/show.php?src=1

 

Photos of Nuns of the Third Order Regular of St. Francis of Asissi – OSFB

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Regarding Papal Enclosure and Solemn Vows, I am not sure about this.  Normally, those two are granted to establish Orders.  Even the Holy Spirit Adoration Sisters - Pink Sisters are not under Papal Enclosure and Solemn Vows.  So, my guess is that they are under the Constitutions Enclosure and Simple Perpetual Vows.

 

Unless, they adopt the Rule of St. Clare, they may request Papal Enclosure and profess Solemn Vows.

 

May I add that Poland has many monasteries of Cloistered Nuns and they have plenty of vocations! 

 

 

 

[Chiquitunga]

Thank you so much, Gracian!! So neat to learn! Their habits look very Carmelite :smile4:

 

Okay, something I just noticed... the Extern Sisters at the PCCs in Cleveland have scapulars! http://www.poorclarecolettines-cleveland.org/externs.htm I wonder if they are technically TOR because they do not take Solemn Vows nor are under Papal Enclosure. The Extern at Rockford (founded by Cleveland) has an identical habit to the cloistered nuns, each community has different customs of course. 

 

 

http://photos.cleveland.com/clevelandcom_photo_essays/2010/12/poor_clare_nuns_a_look_inside.html

 

[Chiquitunga]

Okay, something else I've been wanting to ask you about too.. When I went to the clothing of Sr. Mary Agnes at the Rockford PCCs last year, I got a chance to speak for a while with their current Abbess, Mother Dominica - http://www.cloisteredlife.com/2011/12/blackberries-or-not-women-keep-coming-to-the-poor-clares/

 

We got into talking about St. Teresa and she told me there had been a monastery of PCCs in Avila at the time when she was making her first foundation and that she had really admired the fact that they were barefoot and said she wanted that for her reformed branch too, but was not granted permission for it (I think I remember she, Mother Dominica, said it was her spiritual director at the time who was not in favor of it) I have never read this before in any book, have you? I find this very interesting! I almost wonder if there is some connection between this and the term "Discalced" although I know that term is used by a variety of communities (at least I have heard of Discalced Franciscans) to simply mean they are a reformed branch. It does make me wonder though. :detective:

[Alberto Guimaraes]

 

We got into talking about St. Teresa and she told me there had been a monastery of PCCs in Avila at the time when she was making her first foundation and that she had really admired the fact that they were barefoot and said she wanted that for her reformed branch too, but was not granted permission for it (I think I remember she, Mother Dominica, said it was her spiritual director at the time who was not in favor of it) I have never read this before in any book, have you? I find this very interesting! I almost wonder if there is some connection between this and the term "Discalced" although I know that term is used by a variety of communities (at least I have heard of Discalced Franciscans) to simply mean they are a reformed branch. It does make me wonder though. :detective:

 

Peace and Good!    :saint2: 

About «Discalced Franciscan» here are some exemples, in Portuguese language:

 

http://www.salvemaliturgia.com/2010/03/por-exemplos.html

 

 

http://www.franciscanos.org.br/?p=31109

 

http://www.linguee.pt/ingles-portugues/traducao/discalced.html

 

 

And in English language:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discalced

 

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05028a.htm

 

http://www.christusrex.org/www1/ofm/fra/FRAht07e.html

 

http://portiunculathelittleportion.blogspot.pt/2013/01/discalced-franciscan-lay-apostolates.html

 

http://magnificat.ca/cal/en/saints/blessed_john_the_discalced.html

 

 

http://discalced.askdefine.com/

 

 

http://www.gcatholic.org/orders/106.htm

 

http://www.historygrandrapids.org/article/2322/about-discalced

 

 

Jesus, Mary and FRancis be with you, keep you and bless you!   :nun: 

I wish you all a nice week-end!    :joecool: 

Br. Alberto Guimaraes SFO

Secular Franciscan Fraternity of Braga - Portugal

[graciandelamadrededios]

Thank you so much, Gracian!! So neat to learn! Their habits look very Carmelite :smile4:

 

Okay, something I just noticed... the Extern Sisters at the PCCs in Cleveland have scapulars! http://www.poorclarecolettines-cleveland.org/externs.htm I wonder if they are technically TOR because they do not take Solemn Vows nor are under Papal Enclosure. The Extern at Rockford (founded by Cleveland) has an identical habit to the cloistered nuns, each community has different customs of course. 

 

 

http://photos.cleveland.com/clevelandcom_photo_essays/2010/12/poor_clare_nuns_a_look_inside.html

 

Your welcome, Chiqui!

 

Before Vatican II, Extern Sisters are not under the Second Order; they are Third Order Sisters.  OCD Nuns and OP Nuns had this arrangements before Vatican II.  After the Council, Externs are placed equally with their cloistered counterparts making them members of the Second Order.

 

 

The Nuns of Carmel of St. Therese in Gilmore, Manila produced a commemorative book that chronicles the foundation of their monastery.  They celebrated their Diamond Jubilee last 2001.  The title of said book is:

 

Carmel of St. Therese

75 Years

1926 – November 24 – 2001

 

The following lines are dedicated to their beloved Extern Sisters:

 

Community: Extern Sisters

 

            We are a strictly enclosed Community meaning that, except for some justifiable reasons allowed by our Constitutions, we simply stay inside the main building of our Monastery.  We don’t even go out and attend Mass inside our very own chapel, but attend Mass in the Choir inside the enclosure!  Even for minor ailments not needing hospital care, we rely on our own infirmary and infirmarians.  You may therefore wonder how come you see some Carmelite Sisters outside of our enclosure.  You may also wonder how in the world we do some necessary temporal affairs like purchasing, running errands here and there, etc.  We may profess to live with our sights set on heaven but we are not angels and we still have to live by the rules and trades of the world.

 

            Well, for these reasons and more, we do have our Sister-angels!  They are called Extern Sisters (while those inside the enclosure can be referred to as the Cloistered Sisters).  We are not really different.  For all intents and purposes, both the Extern and Cloistered Sisters are Carmelite Sisters, monghas, in the strict and essential meaning of our vocation.  The only difference is one of geography:  Extern Sisters pay and work outside the enclosure while the Cloistered pray and work inside the enclosure.

 

            In a real sense, our Extern Sisters are our eyes and ears.  They are our connection with the rhythm of everyday living.  They are our lifeline with the goings-on of daily life outside our walls:  the horrendous traffic, the skyrocketing prices, the floods, and the hassles and bustles of life.  And during our first years, they were literally our breadwinners!  For you they are our front-liners, so to speak.  They are your more ready access of Sisters to talk with, of Sisters to ask for prayers, of Sisters to unburden your cares on.