The Habit Of Poor Clare Colettines Before Vatican Ii

[graciandelamadrededios]

22 minutes ago, truthfinder said:

What an interesting picture. I wonder if the nun on the right is actually a lay sister - because of the scapular.  I'm positive I've seen some OSC and PCC communities dress their lay or extern sisters with a scapular. The rest of the sisters though also have rather elaborate cinctures that seem completely at odds with what we think of as the traditional franciscan cincture. 

The Poor Clares do not have any lay sisters, at least that was what Mother Mary Francis, PCC wrote in her book and the Constitutions of St. Colette does not mention any (OSC's Constitutions was based on St. Colette's.)  Below is a photo of Poor Clare Nun with square quimpe and kerchief (she wore black veil, so I am quite sure she is not a lay sister):

 

[graciandelamadrededios]

Anapolis, Goias, Brazil was founded in 1963 by the New York Monastery. In 1987 the last American Sisters left and this is now an independent monastery.

 

[graciandelamadrededios]

 

 

Irish Poor Clare Colettines before Vatican II - there are those who are wondering how they eat without staining their kerchiefs, they might have just pulled them down when eating.  I'm not sure though.....

Edited November 3, 2016 by graciandelamadrededios
wrong word

[Sister Julie]

Friends, the chin covering was normal for silent orders such as the Poor Clare Colletines.  it had little to do with hiding one’s face because a cloistered order is already hidden.
 

As for the scapular (the long long worn front and back over the tunic, not the small one worn on cords under clothing), I was taught as a young sister that it is the garment for the Third Order Regular.  
 

Our foundress  did not use starch in the headpiece.  That came after she died.  She would have been appalled at the use of starch and probably consider it a vain extravagance!

[graciandelamadrededios]

On 11/24/2021 at 11:41 PM, Sister Julie said:

Friends, the chin covering was normal for silent orders such as the Poor Clare Colletines.  it had little to do with hiding one’s face because a cloistered order is already hidden.
 

As for the scapular (the long long worn front and back over the tunic, not the small one worn on cords under clothing), I was taught as a young sister that it is the garment for the Third Order Regular.  
 

Our foundress  did not use starch in the headpiece.  That came after she died.  She would have been appalled at the use of starch and probably consider it a vain extravagance!

THE RULE OF ST. CLARE

AND

THE CONSTITUTIONS

FOR POOR CLARE NUNS

OF THE

REFORM OF ST. COLETTE

1932

 

 

CHAPTER II.

Of the Quality of the Habit and of the other Garments

20. - Since the Rule of Form of life lays down that the Sisters be clothed with poor garments, we ordain and decree that this poverty, both with respect to price and colour, be attended to.

21. - Although it is laid down in the Form of life that the Abbess shall supply and provide the person who enters, on her laying aside her secular dress, with three tunics and a mantle, nevertheless, if necessity or infirmity, or any circumstances of person or of place or time should cause any one to need more garments, we declare that the Abbess shall provide the Sisters with garments according to the qualities according to the qualities of persons and places and times and cold climates, as necessity may seem to require.

22. - It is to be understood that the three tunics mentioned in the Form of life need not be of the same form or shape, since the two inner tunics are allowed, not so much as being part of the Habit of the Order as for the comfort and heat and decency of the body; nor need they be of the same colour.

23. - Wherefore, we direct and ordain that the outer tunic be designated as the Habit of the Order, without which the Sisters may not appear in public, nor retire to sleep, unless illness or infirmity or any other manifest necessity, which has been declared to be sufficient either by the Abbess or her Vicaress, should warrant them to act otherwise.

24. - Let the length of the habit be such that, when worn, it shall not exceed the stature of the person who wears it and train along the ground; and the width shall not exceed fourteen palms. The sleeves shall not extend beyond the first finger joints.

25. - The inner tunics shall be of poor cloth, and may not be lined with skins or furs.

26. - The mantle also shall always be of poor and course cloth, and shall not be gathered or pleated about the neck; nor so long as to train in anyway along the ground.

27. - Let plainness, austerity and poverty, both with respect to texture, cost and colour, be always apparent in all the garments of the Sisters.

28. - Let all the Sisters, both the Abbesses and other Officials, be clad with the same common cloth, and let all partiality be excluded.

29. - The cord, with which the Sisters are girt, shall be plain and common, and shall be free from all manner of singularity.

30. - For the rest, with regard to the covering of the head, we prescribe and ordain that all the Sisters, both the Abbesses as well as the other professed members, without any distinction whatever, shall in all humility, modesty and piety, cover their heads and avoid singularity and vanity of all kinds.

31. - That this be the better observed at all times and by all Sisters in their Convents in every place, we decree that all the Sisters shall so adjust their kerchiefs, that the forehead, both cheeks and the chin shall be for the greater part covered, so that their faces may be in no wise entirely seen.

32. - Besides, the veils and all the kerchiefs that are worn on the head and about the neck shall be so arranged that they cover all the head, the greater part of the chest and the corresponding part of the body at the back.

33. - Furthermore, we direct that all veils and kerchiefs be of common, course and plain linen, so that the holy poverty and austerity of their profession may ever shine forth in them.

34. - Moreover, in order that cleanliness be always attended to, we declare that each Sister, with the consent and permission of her Abbess, may have two black veils and two or three changes of white kerchiefs.

35. - Let all the Sisters beware lest they have pleated kerchiefs, or kerchiefs of silk or of any other costly material.

36. - Finally, no novice may wear the black veil before she has made her profession, but she shall wear the white kerchiefs, suitably arranged according to the direction of the Abbess, as has been heretofore the custom.

[GraceUk]

I read that face coverings were worn when travelling. I think it was in A Right to be Merry that a train journey was described and the sisters wore face veils. I wonder when this custom  was ended. I expect after Vatican II. I wonder if novices and postulants wore them. Probably not as I think it might have been something to do with enclosure.

[graciandelamadrededios]

7 hours ago, GraceUk said:

I read that face coverings were worn when travelling. I think it was in A Right to be Merry that a train journey was described and the sisters wore face veils. I wonder when this custom  was ended. I expect after Vatican II. I wonder if novices and postulants wore them. Probably not as I think it might have been something to do with enclosure.

You are referring to the enclosure veil, a black large thin veils that covers their faces when a Nun is out of the enclosure, they are within the enclosure grounds but might be seen by outsiders, or when a nun is speaking to a person in the parlor who is not an immediate family member - the curtain or stutters of the grate is open, then they pulled down the veil.  Discalced Carmelite Nuns refers to this type of veil as grate or great veils.   Novices wore a white thin veil covering their faces.

 

 

I correponded with Mother Prioress of one of the 1990 Carmels in the US and she shared that in her community, the no longer wear the veil down to their chest but the pulled it down to their nose.  You can still see the lips of the Nuns.  Not every 1990 Carmels does this but I think majority if not all 1990 Carmels in Spain pulls down their veils down to their noses.  If you can find a photo during the burial of Mother Maravillas of Jesus, you will be able to see how the nuns wore their veils.

Edited 21 hours ago by graciandelamadrededios

[Hna.Caridad]

I wonder how much of this (especially face-covering, but also the use of mantillas) has to do with the Muslim influence in Spain?  I really don't see mantillas on women or chin-covering on nuns when I look at Renaissance-era paintings, which has me thinking that women in Italy at that time probably weren't wearing them.

[graciandelamadrededios]

1 hour ago, Hna.Caridad said:

I wonder how much of this (especially face-covering, but also the use of mantillas) has to do with the Muslim influence in Spain?  I really don't see mantillas on women or chin-covering on nuns when I look at Renaissance-era paintings, which has me thinking that women in Italy at that time probably weren't wearing them.

I did ask the Mother Prioresses and they have differing opions - one said it could be a Muslim Influence and another said the opposite. 

Carmelite Nuns sent the following explanation to a friend:

We assume that what you call the Great Veil, is actually the Parlor Veil that you are referring to.  In the times of Our Holy Mother St. Teresa, she and other cloistered nuns would wear these veils covering their faces completely when meeting persons outside the cloister, particularly on her journeys when setting up new foundations of Carmelite Nuns.  The purpose of these parlor veils was to maintain the spirit of the cloister even when certain duties were necessary to perform outside the cloister.  This spirit was and continues to be a spirit of detatchment from the things of the world and being set apart from the world in order to maintain intimate converse with their Spouse, Jesus Christ.  Carmelite life is also a hidden life, and St. Teresa tried to even maintain this aspect of our life in tact when one needed to leave the enclosure.  It also helps maintain recollection, custody of the senses, and maintaining religious decorum outside the monastery.  In the days of St. Teresa, this was a very common practice and widely accepted as the norm since all of Europe was still predominately Catholic.  In our modern times, however, this is not the case and that is why this pious practice has almost become extinct among Carmels today.

I have a copy of "Carmel: Its History, Spirit, and Saints"  compiled by The Discalced Carmelites of Boston and Santa Clare, published in 1927.

It says that Pope Urban IV made the regulation that in all monasteries, each grate should be armed with points of iron.

St. Charles of Borromeo, during the Council of Milan, approved and generalized  the use of double grate as ordained by St. Francis of Paula for his religious and even designated the distance which should separate one from another.  He also wished the Religious to have their faces covered with a veil before persons from without, who should be obliged to enter into the cloister.

PAPER OF EXACTIONS

OF THE

Discalced Carmelite Nuns

OF THE ORDER OF

OUR LADY OF MOUNT CARMEL

taken from

the traditions of our Spanish Mothers and Foundresses.

 

When they have to see the doctor, they should have their great veil lowered and not raise it until they are told to do so, drawing it down again dir­ectly after, but when they have received Extreme Unction, they usually only wear the little veil. They only speak to the doctor when the Mother Prioress, or the Sub-prioress, and in their absence, the Infirmarian tells them to do so; the latter will take care to be beforehand with this permission as soon as the doctor questions them. They should edify him by their patience and moderation, con­tenting themselves with saying what he wishes to know, without showing any eagerness for the remedies which are pleasing to nature, or aversion for those of which it is in dread.

Great/grate Veils Of The Discalced Carmelite Nuns

the above is a VS old thread about the great/grate/parlour/enclosure veils with many photos.