Why Are Homeschooled Kids So Annoying?

[Era Might]

I'm no believer in school systems qua school systems, but not really a believer in homeschooling...seems to me like another form of alienation in a capitalist system. But I wouldn't say it's necessarily bad...it's not the only kind of alienation, and sometimes you have no choice but to embrace your alienation.

[4588686]

Estranged Labour

 

||XXII| We have proceeded from the premises of political economy. We have accepted its language and its laws. We presupposed private property, the separation of labor, capital and land, and of wages, profit of capital and rent of land – likewise division of labor, competition, the concept of exchange value, etc. On the basis of political economy itself, in its own words, we have shown that the worker sinks to the level of a commodity and becomes indeed the most wretched of commodities; that the wretchedness of the worker is in inverse proportion to the power and magnitude of his production; that the necessary result of competition is the accumulation of capital in a few hands, and thus the restoration of monopoly in a more terrible form; and that finally the distinction between capitalist and land rentier, like that between the tiller of the soil and the factory worker, disappears and that the whole of society must fall apart into the two classes – property ownersand propertyless workers.

Political economy starts with the fact of private property; it does not explain it to us. It expresses in general, abstract formulas the material process through which private property actually passes, and these formulas it then takes for laws. It does not comprehend these laws – i.e., it does not demonstrate how they arise from the very nature of private property. Political economy throws no light on the cause of the division between labor and capital, and between capital and land. When, for example, it defines the relationship of wages to profit, it takes the interest of the capitalists to be the ultimate cause, i.e., it takes for granted what it is supposed to explain. Similarly, competition comes in everywhere. It is explained from external circumstances. As to how far these external and apparently accidental circumstances are but the expression of a necessary course of development, political economy teaches us nothing. We have seen how exchange itself appears to it as an accidental fact. The only wheels which political economy sets in motion are greed, and the war amongst the greedy â€“ competition.

Precisely because political economy does not grasp the way the movement is connected, it was possible to oppose, for instance, the doctrine of competition to the doctrine of monopoly, the doctrine of craft freedom to the doctrine of the guild, the doctrine of the division of landed property to the doctrine of the big estate – for competition, freedom of the crafts and the division of landed property were explained and comprehended only as accidental, premeditated and violent consequences of monopoly, of the guild system, and of feudal property, not as their necessary, inevitable and natural consequences.

Now, therefore, we have to grasp the intrinsic connection between private property, greed, the separation of labor, capital and landed property; the connection of exchange and competition, of value and the devaluation of man, of monopoly and competition, etc. – the connection between this whole estrangement and the money system.

 

 

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/manuscripts/labour.htm

Edited June 1, 2013 by Hasan

[missionseeker]

The people I knew as a homeschooler were very different from the same viewpoint/world view/whatever. The person who runs the coverschool that we were almost kind-of-sort-of-but-not-actually-for-practical-reasons-a-part-of (meaning, we did other curriculum but hung out with them a lot) were atheists with a one finger salute as their cover photo on facebook. Of course, I only knew three other catholics near my age in the public school. But anyway, all I'm saying is that homeschooling groups are (usually) more diverse than people realize. 

[4588686]

The people I knew as a homeschooler were very different from the same viewpoint/world view/whatever. The person who runs the coverschool that we were almost kind-of-sort-of-but-not-actually-for-practical-reasons-a-part-of (meaning, we did other curriculum but hung out with them a lot) were atheists with a one finger salute as their cover photo on facebook. Of course, I only knew three other catholics near my age in the public school. But anyway, all I'm saying is that homeschooling groups are (usually) more diverse than people realize. 

 

 

Don't taint my uninformed anecdotal claims with your better informed anecdotal claims.  

[4588686]

The people I knew as a homeschooler were very different from the same viewpoint/world view/whatever. The person who runs the coverschool that we were almost kind-of-sort-of-but-not-actually-for-practical-reasons-a-part-of (meaning, we did other curriculum but hung out with them a lot) were atheists with a one finger salute as their cover photo on facebook. Of course, I only knew three other catholics near my age in the public school. But anyway, all I'm saying is that homeschooling groups are (usually) more diverse than people realize. 

 

Don't taint my poorly informed anecdotal claims with your better informed anecdotal claims.   

[4588686]

The people I knew as a homeschooler were very different from the same viewpoint/world view/whatever. The person who runs the coverschool that we were almost kind-of-sort-of-but-not-actually-for-practical-reasons-a-part-of (meaning, we did other curriculum but hung out with them a lot) were atheists with a one finger salute as their cover photo on facebook. Of course, I only knew three other catholics near my age in the public school. But anyway, all I'm saying is that homeschooling groups are (usually) more diverse than people realize. 

 

Don't taint my poorly informed anecdotal claims with your better informed anecdotal claims.   

[Little Flower]

I think it really depends on each child and how long they have been home schooled during their life.

One could be home schooled all the way through high school and still maintain a  healthy social experience.

But I do agree that home schooling can definitely lead to bubble development.

 

I wouldnt ever want to consider myself "sheltered" as a home schooler and neither should you. It has a negative connotation and the whole idea ruffles my feathers.

 

I have a strong dislike for that mentality where people purposefully SEEK shelter from the world (I am not suggesting that you do). For example, a friend of mine went to Franciscan University so that she could "hide away". Or that town in Florida (Ave Maria?) that considered itself "Catholic Town".

Both ideas to me are awful. As Catholics we should NEVER willfully hide from the world. We need to reach out our arms to others, immerse them in what gives us our joy; our Catholic faith! We need to understand our world so that we are better equipped to defend our morals and our faith against any attacks going on.

We need to be IN this world, but not OF the world.

I have never heard that before - what is the negative connotation of sheltered? Anyhow, when I say that, I don't mean that I didn't know that bad things happen in the world. What I mean is that when I was 10 years old I didn't know every curse word and all about sex. I was innocent and happy. My parents tried to keep us from being completely desensitized by all the sex and violence depicted in both the media coverage and just about every movie and video game out there. When there were disturbing articles in the newspaper (for example, a story about an 8yro being brutally murdered and dismembered, all over all of the papers in my town) they would either rip out the articles or tell us not to read them because we were young and it would have disturbed us. That doesn't mean that I don't know how to handle problems in my life now. I think it just means that I dont have a distorted world view and think that its normal to sleep with every other guy you meet and be totally used to seeing bloodshed.

 

I do not feel a need to hide from the world - I don't think that most homeschoolers feel that way either. I will be attending a public college this fall. I think you might have had one experience with someone who does want to hide from real life and applied that to everyone.

 

I think the real problem with kids who can't handle real life has nothing to do with school, and everything to do with how they were raised. Spoiled brats will be spoiled brats, and they will freak out when they realize that the entire world actually doesn't revolve around themselves. Kids whose parents didn't emphasize the value of learning will probably drop out of school or at least not do so great. Your parents can be that way whether you are homeschooled or go to public school. Because homeschooling requires so much effort on the part of the parents, I think it is more likely that they will be the kind who emphasize the value of learning, help their children, etc.

 

Yes we need to understand our world, but we don't need to have intimate knowledge of every kind of sinful behavior when we're 10 years old!

[Archaeology cat]

The homeschoolers I know here are mostly Catholic, some Protestant. The divide is more between "crunchy" or not. In Liverpool, the homeschool group was fairly evenly divided between pagan, non-religious, Muslim, and Christian. We were the only Catholic family.

In college there was this one guy who fit all the homeschool stereotypes. A few years later his sister came to the same university, and she fit none of the stereotypes.

Anyway, the main thing is to do what works for you. A friend had planned on homeschooling, but then realised she wasn't able to do it properly with everything else going on in her life, so she put them in a very good public school. I am planning to homeschool but will of course evaluate things as we go. (For the record, I went to public schools, and had mostly good experiences, aside from being rather bored in most classes)

[photosynthesis]

I am on the fence about homeschooling my daughter.  I only have one child and she is 4.  I have some doubts about whether I'm organized and self disciplined to do it, and whether homeschooling will put strain on my relationship with her.  Public schools in our town are "good" on paper and highly rated, but I went to public school in a "good school district" and was bullied all day every day to the point of being so miserable I attempted suicide when I was 13.  When people talk about "socialization" concerns with homeschoolers, I often think of how awkward and weird I felt in public school and how much I struggled with fitting in.  And youth group at church was no different!!!  The kids were just as mean there which kept me from the Church for a long time.  Public school did a terrible job "socializing me" and there's no way I'd send my daughter there.  The local Catholic school might work out for us, but at the same time, their kindergarten is full day (as is public school kindergarten).  I don't know why a 5 year old needs to be in school for so much time.  It's probably not a hard transition if you're already used to being in daycare from 7am-7pm, but that's not the case with my daughter so homeschooling might be a good alternative for us.

[homeschoolmom]

I am on the fence about homeschooling my daughter.  I only have one child and she is 4.  I have some doubts about whether I'm organized and self disciplined to do it, and whether homeschooling will put strain on my relationship with her.  Public schools in our town are "good" on paper and highly rated, but I went to public school in a "good school district" and was bullied all day every day to the point of being so miserable I attempted suicide when I was 13.  When people talk about "socialization" concerns with homeschoolers, I often think of how awkward and weird I felt in public school and how much I struggled with fitting in.  And youth group at church was no different!!!  The kids were just as mean there which kept me from the Church for a long time.  Public school did a terrible job "socializing me" and there's no way I'd send my daughter there.  The local Catholic school might work out for us, but at the same time, their kindergarten is full day (as is public school kindergarten).  I don't know why a 5 year old needs to be in school for so much time.  It's probably not a hard transition if you're already used to being in daycare from 7am-7pm, but that's not the case with my daughter so homeschooling might be a good alternative for us.

Five year olds *don't* need to be in school all day (imho) and that's my beef with all-day kindergarten. Some school systems have full-day option where the morning is "regular" kindergarten, then some kids leave and the rest stay and do cooking, extra art etc. (so it's really child-care with a different name). Kindergarten has slowly evolved into what first grade used to be.

 

Homeschooling probably would put some strain on your relationship with your daughter, but going to brick-and-mortar school would put different strains on it.

[CrossCuT]

I have never heard that before - what is the negative connotation of sheltered? Anyhow, when I say that, I don't mean that I didn't know that bad things happen in the world. What I mean is that when I was 10 years old I didn't know every curse word and all about sex. I was innocent and happy. My parents tried to keep us from being completely desensitized by all the sex and violence depicted in both the media coverage and just about every movie and video game out there. When there were disturbing articles in the newspaper (for example, a story about an 8yro being brutally murdered and dismembered, all over all of the papers in my town) they would either rip out the articles or tell us not to read them because we were young and it would have disturbed us. That doesn't mean that I don't know how to handle problems in my life now. I think it just means that I dont have a distorted world view and think that its normal to sleep with every other guy you meet and be totally used to seeing bloodshed.

 

What you described is not being sheltered, its just good parenting.

 

Below I linked the Wiki definition of "sheltered". 

 

 

 

sheltered (comparative more sheltered, superlative most sheltered)

1. Protected, as from wind or weather. The boat was much safer, during the storm, in the sheltered cove.
2. (Of a person) who grew up being overprotected by parents or other guardians; often implies a lack of social skills, worldly experience, etc.

 

​http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sheltered

 

Of course you dont want your kid to grow up neck deep and bombarded by negative media but you should NOT consider yourself sheltered...because by your description you are not.

 

If you think that your parents overprotected you or that you have a lack of social skills...then you would probably be sheltered. But I dont think you would consider yourself that hence why I dont like anyone using that word to describe themselves  :unsure:

 

I do not feel a need to hide from the world - I don't think that most homeschoolers feel that way either. I will be attending a public college this fall. I think you might have had one experience with someone who does want to hide from real life and applied that to everyone.

 

I think the real problem with kids who can't handle real life has nothing to do with school, and everything to do with how they were raised. Spoiled brats will be spoiled brats, and they will freak out when they realize that the entire world actually doesn't revolve around themselves. Kids whose parents didn't emphasize the value of learning will probably drop out of school or at least not do so great. Your parents can be that way whether you are homeschooled or go to public school. Because homeschooling requires so much effort on the part of the parents, I think it is more likely that they will be the kind who emphasize the value of learning, help their children, etc.

 

Yes we need to understand our world, but we don't need to have intimate knowledge of every kind of sinful behavior when we're 10 years old!

 

I dont think I at all suggested that young children be immersed into the big bad world in that way at all. I suppose I should have specified which age group I was talking about because I realize when a discussion of homeschooling is on the table it is natural to assume that we are talking elementary school. 

I 100% agree that we need to take special care in the upbringing of children...keep their lives simple and free of as much unnecessary stress as possible while still allowing them to grow and learn. But I also strongly believe that as we get older we need to use knowledge as a weapon because how are we suppose to combat the evils in this world if we dont understand them?

If we as Catholics tell the world "Hey abortion is wrong!!!" and people reply "How come?" how are we to justify our belief by simply saying "I dunno, it just is."

 

I dont know how good of an example that is but I think you understand what Im getting at.

And I do believe that we should have intimate knowledge of whatever behavior, circumstance, or whathaveyou that comes our way and threatens what we believe. We cant stick our heads in the sand people!!!!! We need to be knowledgeable, proactive, and faithful witnesses. 

[Mary+Immaculate<3]

I like homeschooling for many reasons, but there are definitely drawbacks. For one thing, I know loads of solid, Catholic homeschoolers ant they are awe.some friends. A downside is that if you are not active in the homeschool community or there isn't one in your area, it can be very challenging "flying solo." Obviously though, there are the positive things like not experiencing stress from school, peer pressure, bullying, and all that other stuff. And you are free to explore your interests, go at your own pace, and get behind or ahead in certain classes. For example, this year I was supposed to do physical science, but I ended up doing too many other time-consuming classes (composition, literature, Chesterton, Latin, geometry), and so I'm doing science in the summer. I am in eighth grade (graduating tomorrow!!!), but and doing geometry because algebra was fairly easy for me. So as a freshman I will be taking algebra 2. Because I am accelerated in school I am going to try to finish almost all graduation requirements before senior year, that way I can focus on discernment, apps, scholarships, internships, and working to save money. The other day my mother even proposed that I could go out west to Colorado where one of my sisters lives and spend time with her, and/or go to NYC or wherever my sister will be working when I'm 18. I turn 15 in September, so I am older than most of the people in my grade. That means in senior year I'll legally be an adult and can travel solo.

[Mary+Immaculate<3]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJHt-m3VX6o

 

[Papist]

I am on the fence about homeschooling my daughter.  I only have one child and she is 4.  I have some doubts about whether I'm organized and self disciplined to do it, and whether homeschooling will put strain on my relationship with her.  Public schools in our town are "good" on paper and highly rated, but I went to public school in a "good school district" and was bullied all day every day to the point of being so miserable I attempted suicide when I was 13.  When people talk about "socialization" concerns with homeschoolers, I often think of how awkward and weird I felt in public school and how much I struggled with fitting in.  And youth group at church was no different!!!  The kids were just as mean there which kept me from the Church for a long time.  Public school did a terrible job "socializing me" and there's no way I'd send my daughter there.  The local Catholic school might work out for us, but at the same time, their kindergarten is full day (as is public school kindergarten).  I don't know why a 5 year old needs to be in school for so much time.  It's probably not a hard transition if you're already used to being in daycare from 7am-7pm, but that's not the case with my daughter so homeschooling might be a good alternative for us.

 

I suggest talking to some homechooling parents about their experiences and ups/downs. Ask about any homeschool communities. We have some here that are great. I don't know if my wife could survive w/o the support of her peers. Also, I believe me giving 100% support and doing what I can to help is very important to her.

[Norseman82]

Did anyone ever see the SNL quiz bowl skit (when Michael Phelps hosted) with the homeschooled kids?

Edited June 3, 2013 by Norseman82