Nihil Obstat Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 So just recently Fisheaters has faced some scandal, and lost several members over it. A few days ago, a man 'came out' as being a make to female transsexual. He was supported by several people including, interestingly, the webmaster, Vox. Part of the pro argument deals with an alleged secret Vatican letter to bishops which, again allegedly, approves of 'gender reassignment' surgery in some cases, provided the person in question never attempts to marry, take religious vows, or be ordained. The other main argument seems to be that the brain's 'gender' can in some cases not match the chromosomal gender. Frankly those arguments strike me as tenuous at best. If Dust or Roamin' gives the go-ahead I can post a couple links for context, but it is not hard to find for yourself anyway. Since we have been discussing homosexuality lately, I am wondering what the reaction around here is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not The Philosopher Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 The sort of mind/body dualism presupposed by gender reassignment seems pretty foreign to the Judeo-Christian understanding of our embodied existence. I don't think it's the appropriate response. Offering advice to people who do suffer from gender identity issues of this sort is a little out of my league though. Strange that this should happen at Fisheaters, of all places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
add Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 There's nothing better than a nice fish fry w/ cold slaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 29, 2013 Author Share Posted May 29, 2013 Strange that this should happen at Fisheaters, of all places. One would think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicsAreKewl Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 (edited) Transsexual Pescatarians? Edited May 29, 2013 by CatholicsAreKewl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfink Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 (edited) So just recently Fisheaters has faced some scandal, and lost several members over it. A few days ago, a man 'came out' as being a make to female transsexual. He was supported by several people including, interestingly, the webmaster, Vox. Part of the pro argument deals with an alleged secret Vatican letter to bishops which, again allegedly, approves of 'gender reassignment' surgery in some cases, provided the person in question never attempts to marry, take religious vows, or be ordained. The other main argument seems to be that the brain's 'gender' can in some cases not match the chromosomal gender. Frankly those arguments strike me as tenuous at best. If Dust or Roamin' gives the go-ahead I can post a couple links for context, but it is not hard to find for yourself anyway. Since we have been discussing homosexuality lately, I am wondering what the reaction around here is. Something about this sounds fishy to me, and it's not the name. :P I don't think transsexuality is very well understood by anyone at all, and last I checked, there aren't any Church documents specifically about it. I'd be willing to bet the Church would take the same kind of stance it does on eunuchs, since functionally (assuming they have had sex selection surgery) it's the same thing, just coupled with a cosmetic surgery after the fact. Edited May 30, 2013 by arfink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 Something about this sounds fishy to me, and it's not the name. :P I don't think transsexuality is very well understood by anyone at all, and last I checked, there aren't any Church documents specifically about it. I'd be willing to bet the Church would take the same kind of stance it does on eunuchs, since functionally (assuming they have had sex selection surgery) it's the same thing, just coupled with a cosmetic surgery after the fact. It is certainly strange. And I agree with your assessment, which is why I do not trust that this alleged secret document actually exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardillacid Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 There are forums aside from Phatmass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 There are forums aside from Phatmass? Ikr??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Wow, I'm surprised something like that happened on Fish Eaters, much less that people were supportive. It seems that any claims of any "secret" Vatican letters to anyone are a really bad foundation for any argument. Sounds too gnostic to me. As far as I know, the Church doesn't have any documents acknowledging that transsexual people exist, let alone what the Church's position is (if I'm wrong, please someone let me know). Obviously, trans* persons have to be treated with dignity just like any other. Doesn't the Church teach that our souls are gendered? Would that be an issue to consider when talking about trans* issues? It seems to me that the Church would probably categorize most gender assignment surgery as mutilation, not medical care...though I'm not entirely sure either way. But there are a lot of individual cases that are very different from each other. Cases where a person doesn't physically express one gender or the other seem to be different from people who completely physically express one sex and want to change to the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 Wow, I'm surprised something like that happened on Fish Eaters, much less that people were supportive. It seems that any claims of any "secret" Vatican letters to anyone are a really bad foundation for any argument. Sounds too gnostic to me. As far as I know, the Church doesn't have any documents acknowledging that transsexual people exist, let alone what the Church's position is (if I'm wrong, please someone let me know). Obviously, trans* persons have to be treated with dignity just like any other. Doesn't the Church teach that our souls are gendered? Would that be an issue to consider when talking about trans* issues? It seems to me that the Church would probably categorize most gender assignment surgery as mutilation, not medical care...though I'm not entirely sure either way. But there are a lot of individual cases that are very different from each other. Cases where a person doesn't physically express one gender or the other seem to be different from people who completely physically express one sex and want to change to the other. I do think souls have gender. And I agree with the rest. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 I do think souls have gender. And I agree with the rest. :) Wouldn't the existence of trans* persons, especially ones that believe their mind is one gender and their body is another, help support the idea that souls are indeed gendered? Seems reasonable to me. But in truth I haven't thought it through completely, so that statement might be wildly offensive to some people (can you tell I go to school with feminist theologians? haha). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Wouldn't the existence of trans* persons, especially ones that believe their mind is one gender and their body is another, help support the idea that souls are indeed gendered? Seems reasonable to me. But in truth I haven't thought it through completely, so that statement might be wildly offensive to some people (can you tell I go to school with feminist theologians? haha). I like the * every time you say trans*. It's like it's a forbidden word to say or something. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 Wouldn't the existence of trans* persons, especially ones that believe their mind is one gender and their body is another, help support the idea that souls are indeed gendered? Seems reasonable to me. But in truth I haven't thought it through completely, so that statement might be wildly offensive to some people (can you tell I go to school with feminist theologians? haha). Possibly, but I think not necessarily. I had not thought about it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Is he pretty decent looking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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