The Eastern Orthodox

[p0lar_bear]

PedroX,

I think you are wrong on the confession thing. Only a validly ordained priest has the ability to grant absolution. A [i]laicized priest[/i] can hear confessions in an emergency, but not someone who is not ordained. A priest can also hear the confessions of non-Catholics or grant general absolutions in emergencies (there are specifications on both of these).

[Aloysius]

also: if a layperson were to say, beat up a priest and sit in his place in the confessional, and another person came in and confessed and was absolved by a layperson: it is valid so long as the confessing person doesn't know it's not a priest. I think the principle there is "Ecclesia Supplet" that, although all matter of the sacrament, i.e. Holy Orders, isn't there, because the person believes he is receiving absolution from someone with Holy orders the Church Supplies temporarily the graces of Holy Orders through that person. The person who pretended to be a priest, however, has a very great sin. That's the only case i know of when a layperson can hear confession, other than the laicized priest in an emergency as said above.

Pax Amorque Christi

[p0lar_bear]

Al,

I'm not exactly sure about your situation...if the confessee later became aware that the person was not a priest, they would still be obliged to confess to a valid priest.

[voiciblanche]

Eh. You guys are right. There are sacraments that don't have to be performed by a priest in an emergency, however, I know that Communion is one - but of course the Host must have been consecrated by a priest before hand, and then the lay-person would simply give it to the person in the emergency. And I believe baptism has some kind of lay-person permission in an emergency. Also, a lay-person can call out demons from a possessed person in an emergency.

[p0lar_bear]

[quote]Also, a lay-person can call out demons from a possessed person in an emergency.[/quote]

This is not to be attempted by someone who is not trained. Dealing with demons and possesion is very, very dangerous and should never be taken lightly.



Also, Holy Communion can be distributed by a lay person for reasons other than an emergency. It can be done simply if there is not priest available.

[MorphRC]

Pax Iesus.
[color=red]
[Edited by Ice Princess: negative criticism of the current Pope/Magisterium][/color]

Pax Iesus
Paul.

Edited May 31, 2004 by IcePrincessKRS

[MorphRC]

Pax Iesus.

Some statements on Schismatics and Salvation:

Pope Hadrian II (A. D. 867-872)

"The [b]first thing[/b] required for salvation is to keep the norm of correct faith and to [b]deviate in no way[/b] from what the Fathers have established, because it is not possible to lay aside the words of our Lord Jesus Christ who said, `You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church.' These words are proved true by their effects because, in the Apostolic See, the Catholic religion has always been preserved immaculate." (Council Constantinople IV)

Saint Leo IX, (A. D. 1049-1054)

"If you live [b]not[/b] in the body which is Christ, you are [b]none of His[/b] . Whose, then, are you? [b]You have been cut off and will wither, and like the branch pruned from the vine,[/b] you will burn in the fire - an end which may God's goodness keep far from you."

"So little does the Roman Church stand alone, as you think, that in the whole world any nation that in its pride dissents from her is in no way a church, but a council of heretics, a conventicle of [b]schismatics[/b] , and a synagogue of Satan."

"As far as the pillars of the empire are concerned and its wise and honoured citizens, the city is most Christian and orthodox. But we, not enduring the unheard-of offense and injury done to the Holy Apostolic and First See, wishing to defend in every way the Catholic Faith, by the authority of the Holy and Undivided Trinity and of the Apostolic See, whose legates we are, declare that Michael, patriarch by abuse; [...] Leo called bishop of Achrida; [...] and all their followers in the aforesaid errors and presumption shall be: anathema, maranatha [...] with all the heretics and with the devil and his angels, unless they repent. Amen." (Sancta Romana Prima)

[b]Also notice the seperation of Christian from Orthodox[/b]

Pope Boniface VIII (A. D. 1294-1303)

"If, then, the [b]Greeks[/b] or others say that they were not committed to the care of Peter and his successors, they necessarily confess that they are not of the sheep of Christ; for the Lord says, in John, that there is one fold, one shepherd, and one only." (Unam Sanctam)

Holy and Ecumenical Council of Florence (A. D. 1438-1445)

"We have come to you our head. You are the foundation of the Church. Every member that has left you is sick, and wild beasts have devoured the flock that has separated itself from you. [...] You who have the power of the heavenly keys, open to us the gates of eternal life."

[color=red][Edited by Ice Princess: negative criticism of current Magisterium. See the following link: [url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=11192&hl=new%20rule&st=0"]http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showt...new%20rule&st=0[/url]][/color]

Pax Iesus
Paul.

Edited May 31, 2004 by IcePrincessKRS

[IcePrincessKRS]

Dust says: [color=red]"Effective immediately, any negative criticism of the current Magisterium will result in deletion, and a warning from the moderators. This includes but is not limited to criticism of the Novus Ordo or John Paul II."[/color]

I will edit any comments I see that fall under this category, or

[color=red]"Lack of Respect to the Religious- a post or comment by a Catholic that criticizes or shows lack of obedience to priests, bishops, cardinals, the pope, etc."[/color]

There have been a couple statements in this thread that crossed the line.

Edited May 31, 2004 by IcePrincessKRS

[musturde]

Okay, I asked my religion teacher (yes the one with the Theologian parents) and she said that it's just an agreement with the leaders of both Churches not to allow members of other Churches to recieve Eucharist as a sign of division between the Orthodox and Catholics. (since we're very similar). Btw Some of the priests in the Anglican Church can be valid if they are ordained by a person ordained before King Henry did what he did (from what I hear). The problem is, how do you find those people? Eucharist from Catholic and Orthodoz Churches are valid but you cant recieve from Orthodox Church.

[Crusader_4]

Musturde...from what ihave heard you can recieve from an Orthodox Church when a Catholic Church is not present in the area. Regarding baptism if an unbaptised person is on their death bed or a grave emergency and an ordained person is not present a lay person can perform the baptism (intention and trinitarian formula) must still be used. Second, in an emergency a lay person can hear a confession although no absolution will be given. A lay person cannot do communion under any circumstances although they may be Eucharstic Ministers. I hope this helps.

[MorphRC]

[color=red][Edited by dUSt: any discussion regarding the way I run the board should be handled in private][/color]

[MorphRC]

[color=red][Edited by dUSt: any discussion regarding the way I run the board should be handled in private][/color]

[BeenaBobba]

Hi Morph,

The point is that the Orthodox are still connected to the Body of Christ -- the Catholic Church -- but not in a perfect way.

Take care,

Jen

P.S. Who's to interpret the teachings of the Church but the Church? And the Church has said that the Orthodox are our brothers and sisters in Christ and that they have valid Sacraments. All of those passages you posted have been [b]correctly[/b] interpreted by the Catholic Church in documents such as [i]Lumen Gentium[/i], [i]Dominus Iesus[/i], and [i]Orientale Lumen[/i]. If you insist upon an opinion contrary to the Church's teaching on this matter, are you really any better than Protestants who interpret the Bible in ways contrary to Catholic teaching?

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' date='May 30 2004, 11:20 PM'] Dust says: [color=red]"Effective immediately, any negative criticism of the current Magisterium will result in deletion, and a warning from the moderators. This includes but is not limited to criticism of the Novus Ordo or John Paul II."[/color]

I will edit any comments I see that fall under this category, or

[color=red]"Lack of Respect to the Religious- a post or comment by a Catholic that criticizes or shows lack of obedience to priests, bishops, cardinals, the pope, etc."[/color]

There have been a couple statements in this thread that crossed the line. [/quote]
IceP,

Been keepin ya busy huh?

[MorphRC]

[quote name='BeenaBobba' date='May 31 2004, 05:59 PM'] Hi Morph,

The point is that the Orthodox are still connected to the body of Christ -- but not in a perfect way.

Take care,

Jen

P.S. Who's to interpret the teachings of the Church but the Church? And the Church has said that the Orthodox are our brothers and sisters in Christ and that they have valid Sacraments. All of those passages you posted have been [b]correctly[/b] interpreted by the Catholic Church in documents such as [i]Lumen Gentium[/i], [i]Dominus Iesus[/i], and [i]Orientale Lumen[/i]. If you insist upon an opinion contrary to the Church's teaching on this matter, are you really any better than Protestants who interpret the Bible in ways contrary to Catholic teaching? [/quote]
Pax Iesus

Who said anything about interpretating? The statement doesnt need any interpretation, and please dont play the "it was designed for that time" line, "so its not important now". The statement is plain and simple.

Also. Now Orthodox are apart of the body, but in a imperfect way? How does that work exactly, it that like going to Uni, but not being involved in classes, but still getting the grades and degree?

P.I.
Paul.