Personality Disorder

[Kateri89]

Not necessarily. The meaning is similar, not synonymous and using the term "sociopath" is neither constructive nor helpful. If you mean Antisocial Personality Disorder, say that.

I don't know if you're annoyed with my post but it sounds that way in your reply. Let me clarify something -- I've been an acute care psychiatric nurse for the last three years so I'm not prejudiced against people with mental health disorders. The term 'sociopath' while not a clinical term per se, is commonly understood. I'm not using it with the intent of being rude. That wasn't the point of my post anyway. My point was that the behaviors of someone like that are not caused by an inability to know right from wrong but a lack of concern for the outcome of their actions.

[jazzytakara]

An interesting article on sociopathy: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/insight-is-2020/201304/understanding-the-sociopath-cause-motivation-relationship

 

[HisChildForever]

My husband has schizophrenia. If he did something while psychotic, he would not have to confess it. He would though. I've never met a man who apologizes as much as he does.

 

Yeah but an individual with a personality disorder isn't necessarily operating under a delusion.

[HisChildForever]

Ice_nine makes a really good point. For instance, someone who has Borderline Personality Disorder will do harmful things to themselves for attention, most likely due to a traumatic childhood. While its understandable why they crave the attention they missed as children, it doesn't mean that they don't know right from wrong. Or if someone is a sociopath and will do harmful things without any guilty conscience, does that mean that they can sin without the need to confess? A sociopath also knows right from wrong. They just don't care if they hurt people to get what they want. And that's only two examples of personality disorders. Mood disorders or psychotic disorders are a whole different story.

 

They know right from wrong i.e. societal laws but they don't "know" right from wrong. There's zero morality. That's if you're referring to psychopaths when you mean "sociopath." 

 

APD and psychopathy aren't the same thing.

Edited May 24, 2013 by HisChildForever

[Kateri89]

Psychopathy and sociopathy both fall under APD but psychopathy is more impulsive and genetically based whereas sociopathy is more controlled and calculated but is more likely due to environmental factors.

[HisChildForever]

Psychopathy and sociopathy both fall under APD but psychopathy is more impulsive and genetically based whereas sociopathy is more controlled and calculated but is more likely due to environmental factors.

 

This is incorrect. In order to be diagnosed with psychopathy (yes, I know psychopathy is not an "official" diagnosis) one needs to fit under its criteria, Factor 1 which is for example the selfishness and manipulative nature and Factor 2 which is ASPD, the antisocial and socially deviant lifestyle. An individual diagnosed with psychopathy also has antisocial personality disorder, whereas an individual diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder isn't necessarily a psychopath. Psychopathy and ASPD both have impulsiveness as part of their criteria - this is one possible characteristic of ASPD, and remember ASPD is Factor 2 of psychopathy. (An individual diagnosed with ASPD isn't necessarily impulsive, there are six or seven traits of ASPD listed in the DSM, the individual must meet at least three of those characteristics, so impulsiveness is not necessarily a staple of ASPD.) 

 

In sum, ASPD focus on behavior, psychopathy on behavior and personality. Look at the DSM for ASPD and the PCL-R for psychopathy. There's a significant difference.

 

There's no known cause for psychopathy so I have no clue where you get "genetically based" from.

[Kateri89]

This is incorrect. In order to be diagnosed with psychopathy (yes, I know psychopathy is not an "official" diagnosis) one needs to fit under its criteria, Factor 1 which is for example the selfishness and manipulative nature and Factor 2 which is ASPD, the antisocial and socially deviant lifestyle. An individual diagnosed with psychopathy also has antisocial personality disorder, whereas an individual diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder isn't necessarily a psychopath. Psychopathy and ASPD both have impulsiveness as part of their criteria - this is one possible characteristic of ASPD, and remember ASPD is Factor 2 of psychopathy. (An individual diagnosed with ASPD isn't necessarily impulsive, there are six or seven traits of ASPD listed in the DSM, the individual must meet at least three of those characteristics, so impulsiveness is not necessarily a staple of ASPD.)

In sum, ASPD focus on behavior, psychopathy on behavior and personality. Look at the DSM for ASPD and the PCL-R for psychopathy. There's a significant difference.

There's no known cause for psychopathy so I have no clue where you get "genetically based" from.

In any case I think we're straying off topic from the original purpose of the thread. I'm not here to discuss the dsm-v criteria. The point is that, like you said earlier, they lack morality even if they do know what is technically right or wrong.

The OP wanted thoughts on if they need to go to confession. I think that's one for a priest to decide.

[HisChildForever]

In any case I think we're straying off topic from the original purpose of the thread. I'm not here to discuss the dsm-v criteria. The point is that, like you said earlier, they lack morality even if they do know what is technically right or wrong.

The OP wanted thoughts on if they need to go to confession. I think that's one for a priest to decide.

 

Psychopaths and people with ASPD aren't going to go to confession so at least that's a moot point.

[CatholicsAreKewl]

Psychopaths and people with ASPD aren't going to go to confession so at least that's a moot point.

Really? I mean, I think of morality within the church as a sort of law system. There are law abiding psychopaths in our society. If a psychopath truly believes he'll go to hell for not confessing x, he might do it merely because it is self serving, no? 

Edited May 25, 2013 by CatholicsAreKewl

[HisChildForever]

Really? I mean, I think of morality within the church as a sort of law system. There are law abiding psychopaths in our society. If a psychopath truly believes he'll go to hell for not confessing x, he might do it merely because it is self serving, no? 

 

"There are law-abiding psychopaths in our society" is an oxymoron. I could really get into this but I don't have the time right now.

[HisChildForever]

I've had encounters with psychopaths, people with ASPD, and people with antisocial traits before (as I'm sure SrKateri has too) and let me tell you - they can be extremely charming, extremely friendly, extremely sweet, and appear to be the most genuine person you've ever met. But it's all an act. They'll feed you whatever you want to hear.

[CatholicsAreKewl]

I've had encounters with psychopaths, people with ASPD, and people with antisocial traits before (as I'm sure SrKateri has too) and let me tell you - they can be extremely charming, extremely friendly, extremely sweet, and appear to be the most genuine person you've ever met. But it's all an act. They'll feed you whatever you want to hear.

 

We're not that bad. 

[beatitude]

I also work in mental health and I do get a little frustrated with the way people discuss these conditions on the basis of what they read on Wikipedia, sometimes to self-diagnose, sometimes just to play speculation games about others. If we were talking about cardiology, people would probably be a lot more hesitant to talk like this. I am wary of these topics because there is a very real chance that Catholics with personality disorders or other severe and enduring mental health problems may stumble across the forum and feel alienated by what they read, which is frankly the last thing they need.

[ithinkjesusiscool]

I also work in mental health and I do get a little frustrated with the way people discuss these conditions on the basis of what they read on Wikipedia, sometimes to self-diagnose, sometimes just to play speculation games about others. If we were talking about cardiology, people would probably be a lot more hesitant to talk like this. I am wary of these topics because there is a very real chance that Catholics with personality disorders or other severe and enduring mental health problems may stumble across the forum and feel alienated by what they read, which is frankly the last thing they need.

 

but remember that many people also anti-diagnose themselves.

[Clare Brigid]

Pax!
Dear Catholics,
can a person with a PD commit certain acts without needing to confess it?

 

Remember that one of the purposes of the sacrament of penance is to give us assurance that God forgives us.  The advice I have heard is that when in doubt, it does not hurt to reveal the sin in confession and submit it to the judgment of the Church.  You can mention the personality disorder at the beginning of the confession so that the priest understands the background.

 

It's really best not to get tied up in knots trying to make your own judgment about the degree of culpability.