Facebook Discussion

[LittleWaySoul]

Someone just asked me why I think pornography shouldn't exist. I *think* I'll be okay to defend my position, but do any of you with experience arguing this or who know a lot about this issue want to give me some input? Thanks guys! :3

[Basilisa Marie]

Pornography creates unrealistic expectations for sex. People expect real sex to be like porn, but that's rarely the case. It's also shown to condition people to only be able to sexually respond to particular sexual situations or circumstances.

 

Many women who are involved in pornography don't do it because they want to.  Some women are in it because they want to, but many aren't.  And many who say they like it are doing so to keep up the fantasy.  Porn also creates unrealistic expectations for the bodies of women (and men!).  People don't expect to see body hair and flab anymore. 

 

Those are just off the top of my head. 

[Ice_nine]

My advice is to not get into a facebook debate.

[PhuturePriest]

Countless studies suggest pornography increases the frequency of rape.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELcV248Ms_I&list=PLKXqw2pP-iAF4aEOrSOUjFAaBx7L7o15A&index=6

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhZtCsI1L4E&list=PLKXqw2pP-iAF4aEOrSOUjFAaBx7L7o15A

 

[CatholicsAreKewl]

Countless studies suggest pornography increases the frequency of rape.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELcV248Ms_I&list=PLKXqw2pP-iAF4aEOrSOUjFAaBx7L7o15A&index=6

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhZtCsI1L4E&list=PLKXqw2pP-iAF4aEOrSOUjFAaBx7L7o15A

 

Well, this is still debated. There are experiments that suggest that there is not a strong relationship between increased pornography exposure and incidents of rape. The studies you are referring to, if I am not mistaken, specifically mention "violent pornography". They seem to indicate that increased consumption of violent pornography was related to sexual violence for those who were already prone to violence. 

 

This nonscientific article argues that rape and violent crime has actually progressively declined over the years, despite the increased availability of pornography.  I can send you the more recent scholarly articles on this topic If you'd like. 
http://reason.com/archives/2007/11/05/is-pornography-a-catalyst-of-s

Edited May 23, 2013 by CatholicsAreKewl

[jazzytakara]

One of the reasons I am against pornography is based on what it does do all those involved. For this involved with the industry, many find their value in their physical appearance and performance level. I know of one girl in who does porn for a living and she now appears to thrive on the attention she gets paid for her looks. She has become unphased to degrading and sexually harassing comments, as in her line of work she has become desensitized to it, as it is normal for her. I can see this leading to many mental, emotional, and eating disorders for some. A lot claim to be happy now, but eventually as they get older, etc. they may not fit into the image their agents want to promote, they may be forced into unnecessary plastic surgery and other extremes to fit the image for the type or porn they work in. Also it seems to have leave many women and men physically damaged. I went to a talk once where a former porn producer said he watched girls literally tear themselves a part to perform in a scene, as these movies are shot like every other movie, the scene gets redone until it is exactly right. 

 

Another reason is that it negatively effects those who choose to partake in pornography. Many relationships end because one or both parties watch porn. It leads to addictions in some cases as well. This type of media isn't conducive to a healthy relationship as it is bringing other people into the intimate side of someone else's relationship. And often the things portrayed in porn are unrealistic and potentially dangerous to physical, mental, and emotional well being. To me watching porn is like cheating, as it is relying on others to fulfill needs that should be reserved between husband/wife, or in the secular world of dating between a girlfriend/boyfriend. Ideally, no one but our spouse should be fulfilling the needs that people claim pornography can give them.

This is merely my personal opinion, but here is a legitimate resource from a ministry who actively spreads awareness on the negative reality of porn, it may be helpful to check it out: http://www.theporneffect.com/

 

[CatholicsAreKewl]

One of the reasons I am against pornography is based on what it does do all those involved. For this involved with the industry, many find their value in their physical appearance and performance level. I know of one girl in who does porn for a living and she now appears to thrive on the attention she gets paid for her looks. She has become unphased to degrading and sexually harassing comments, as in her line of work she has become desensitized to it, as it is normal for her. I can see this leading to many mental, emotional, and eating disorders for some. A lot claim to be happy now, but eventually as they get older, etc. they may not fit into the image their agents want to promote, they may be forced into unnecessary plastic surgery and other extremes to fit the image for the type or porn they work in. Also it seems to have leave many women and men physically damaged. I went to a talk once where a former porn producer said he watched girls literally tear themselves a part to perform in a scene, as these movies are shot like every other movie, the scene gets redone until it is exactly right. 

 

Another reason is that it negatively effects those who choose to partake in pornography. Many relationships end because one or both parties watch porn. It leads to addictions in some cases as well. This type of media isn't conducive to a healthy relationship as it is bringing other people into the intimate side of someone else's relationship. And often the things portrayed in porn are unrealistic and potentially dangerous to physical, mental, and emotional well being. To me watching porn is like cheating, as it is relying on others to fulfill needs that should be reserved between husband/wife, or in the secular world of dating between a girlfriend/boyfriend. Ideally, no one but our spouse should be fulfilling the needs that people claim pornography can give them.

This is merely my personal opinion, but here is a legitimate resource from a ministry who actively spreads awareness on the negative reality of porn, it may be helpful to check it out: http://www.theporneffect.com/

 

Thanks for sharing! Since I am in the mood for debate, would you mind if I played the devil's advocate? Porn definitely has negatives, no question about it. I'm concerned that there might be a tendency to overstate these negatives. I believe the idea that all porn-stars are drug addicted lost souls is a bit of a misconception. There was a study done recently that indicated that porn stars are actually happier than the average woman (I know self-report surveys aren't the most accurate in assessing happiness but the results are completely contrary to what we might expect as Catholics). Yes, porn can be addicting but, as you've stated in another post, the frequency of sinful acts depends on trait self-control, among other things. 

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/neuroskeptic/2012/11/23/are-porn-stars-happier/#.UZ6xcSvwJk0

Edited May 24, 2013 by CatholicsAreKewl

[jazzytakara]

Thanks for sharing! Since I am in the mood for debate, would you mind if I played the devil's advocate? Porn definitely has negatives, no question about it. I'm concerned that there might be a tendency to overstate these negatives. I believe the idea that all porn-stars are drug addicted lost souls is a bit of a misconception. There was a study done recently that indicated that porn stars are actually happier than the average woman (I know self-report surveys aren't the most accurate in assessing happiness but the results are completely contrary to what we might expect as Catholics). Yes, porn can be addicting but, as you've stated in another post, the frequency of sinful acts depends on trait self-control, among other things. 

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/neuroskeptic/2012/11/23/are-porn-stars-happier/#.UZ6xcSvwJk0

 The person that I know also seems rather happy with her career also, I just worry once the glitz and and glamour of being sought after by men and the paychecks begin to dwindle they will become considerably less happy. It just seems that the porn industry is rather shallow and vain and that viewing it as a long term career option may not exactly be viable. The article you supplied is certainly interesting, but being a self-report based survey makes me question the honesty. Also, I know in some cases if I come to realize I have made a bad decision, I may over exaggerate my happiness in it, tell people of the pros over the cons, etc. If I am not ready to truly admit to others that I have made a mistake. I'm stubborn I guess. So in some cases, the women reporting may be in a state of denial, being paid to say it is great working in porn, or they could legitimately be happy. Some people are happy doing the type of things common to the porn industry, but happiness does not necessarily mean moral or right. For instance, I wonder what a man or woman working in porn would think if they indirectly broke up a marriage for instance? Even though the porn worker/star (not all are celebrities in the porn world) did not intend to cause tension in a marriage, they are still the object of temptation that lead one spouse astray.  Also not every porn agency is regulated the way the major companies are, many men and women not fully understanding what they are getting into may contract STD's/STI's, hurt themselves, be raped, abused, etc. I guess it wouldn't be my choice of lifestyle, but if someone I know wanted to be in porn I would still love them and do my best not to judge their choices, but I would want to make sure they knew all the facts rather than joining an industry based upon the glamorized and often fictionalized  accounts of the porn industry. Not every porn film leads to the Playboy Mansion so to speak. 

In regards to self control and porn, I wouldn't use them in regards to my belief in chastity. I think we should be loyal to the man or woman we love and not seek others for stimulation, emotional connection, etc. It is centered around lust and lust isn't desirable and should aptly be avoided. A couple viewing themselves may be a different story (and probably belongs in a different discussion, I have personally heard both sides of this argument), but in regards to chastity and being loyal to a spouse/partner, porn doesn't really fit the equation, even if viewed once a month. I will use an extreme example. If I only punch someone once a year, without reason, because it feels good to do so, it is still morally wrong even though I am not punching multiple people once a day. For me self control is more about things that are good for us in moderation, but bad for us in excess. Like eating a slice of cheesecake today vs. eating a whole cheesecake today. 

The porn industry also gives unrealistic expectations in relationships as some others have said prior to me. For instance, some reports have shown that the unrealistic acts shown in porn train the body to respond to certain stimuli that cannot be replicated in real life; this could negatively effect a couples intimacy in their relationship. Also the porn industry is similar to the rest of the film industry by perpetuating unhealthy and unrealistic body images in the general public. 

As an aside, its often good to debate from both sides, even if you disagree with what you are debating. A teacher once told me that a good debater must be able to debate from all sides of an argument, otherwise they won't be able to anticipate their oppositions responses and lose their ability to effectively respond.

[Papist]

Thanks for sharing! Since I am in the mood for debate, would you mind if I played the devil's advocate? Porn definitely has negatives, no question about it. I'm concerned that there might be a tendency to overstate these negatives. I believe the idea that all porn-stars are drug addicted lost souls is a bit of a misconception. There was a study done recently that indicated that porn stars are actually happier than the average woman (I know self-report surveys aren't the most accurate in assessing happiness but the results are completely contrary to what we might expect as Catholics). Yes, porn can be addicting but, as you've stated in another post, the frequency of sinful acts depends on trait self-control, among other things. 

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/neuroskeptic/2012/11/23/are-porn-stars-happier/#.UZ6xcSvwJk0

 

You seem to know much about porn :|

 

But seriously, I think the first thing we should do is reflect on what is the purpose of porn.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Papist

[dominicansoul]

Someone just asked me why I think pornography shouldn't exist. I *think* I'll be okay to defend my position, but do any of you with experience arguing this or who know a lot about this issue want to give me some input? Thanks guys! :3

 

 

Just tell them it's "icky."   :|

[CatholicsAreKewl]

 The person that I know also seems rather happy with her career also, I just worry once the glitz and and glamour of being sought after by men and the paychecks begin to dwindle they will become considerably less happy. It just seems that the porn industry is rather shallow and vain and that viewing it as a long term career option may not exactly be viable. The article you supplied is certainly interesting, but being a self-report based survey makes me question the honesty. Also, I know in some cases if I come to realize I have made a bad decision, I may over exaggerate my happiness in it, tell people of the pros over the cons, etc. If I am not ready to truly admit to others that I have made a mistake. I'm stubborn I guess. So in some cases, the women reporting may be in a state of denial, being paid to say it is great working in porn, or they could legitimately be happy. Some people are happy doing the type of things common to the porn industry, but happiness does not necessarily mean moral or right.

I wasn't implying that pornstars are role models by any means. I just think we tend to portray them as soul-less zombie-like figures who are merely using pornography to feed their drug addictions.

 

 

 

 For instance, I wonder what a man or woman working in porn would think if they indirectly broke up a marriage for instance? Even though the porn worker/star (not all are celebrities in the porn world) did not intend to cause tension in a marriage, they are still the object of temptation that lead one spouse astray.  Also not every porn agency is regulated the way the major companies are, many men and women not fully understanding what they are getting into may contract STD's/STI's, hurt themselves, be raped, abused, etc. I guess it wouldn't be my choice of lifestyle, but if someone I know wanted to be in porn I would still love them and do my best not to judge their choices, but I would want to make sure they knew all the facts rather than joining an industry based upon the glamorized and often fictionalized  accounts of the porn industry. Not every porn film leads to the Playboy Mansion so to speak.

 

Well, we have to be honest. If porn breaks up a relationship, there are bigger underlying problems than just pornography. I agree with you that there are porn studios that have a horrible record of dealing with their actresses. I feel that is somewhat irrelevant, though. Companies like Google shouldn't have to answer to the despicable practices of companies like Enron. 

 

 

 

In regards to self control and porn, I wouldn't use them in regards to my belief in chastity. I think we should be loyal to the man or woman we love and not seek others for stimulation, emotional connection, etc. It is centered around lust and lust isn't desirable and should aptly be avoided. A couple viewing themselves may be a different story (and probably belongs in a different discussion, I have personally heard both sides of this argument), but in regards to chastity and being loyal to a spouse/partner, porn doesn't really fit the equation, even if viewed once a month. I will use an extreme example. If I only punch someone once a year, without reason, because it feels good to do so, it is still morally wrong even though I am not punching multiple people once a day. For me self control is more about things that are good for us in moderation, but bad for us in excess. Like eating a slice of cheesecake today vs. eating a whole cheesecake today.

We have different concepts of self control. There is a relatively new theory that self control is like a muscle that can be worked out/exhausted. Many studies have shown that if participants do one self-control depleting task (ex: choosing to eat a plate of radishes instead of a piece of cake), they will perform much worse on a second self-control depleting task (ex: completing an impossible puzzle). So, let's say you're on a new diet. Your choosing to eat broccoli instead of Hagan Daaz could make it much harder to resist the seductive advances of Ned, your attractive plumber. I could go on for a while, but it'd probably get boring soon.

 

 

The porn industry also gives unrealistic expectations in relationships as some others have said prior to me. For instance, some reports have shown that the unrealistic acts shown in porn train the body to respond to certain stimuli that cannot be replicated in real life; this could negatively effect a couples intimacy in their relationship. Also the porn industry is similar to the rest of the film industry by perpetuating unhealthy and unrealistic body images in the general public.

I totally agree with this. 

 

 

 

As an aside, its often good to debate from both sides, even if you disagree with what you are debating. A teacher once told me that a good debater must be able to debate from all sides of an argument, otherwise they won't be able to anticipate their oppositions responses and lose their ability to effectively respond.

Good point! 

Edited May 24, 2013 by CatholicsAreKewl