Since We've Been Talking About Lgbtq Stuff A Lot Lately...

[IcePrincessKRS]

I think people are getting screwed up by things being related and then mistaking them for being the same thing. Homosexuality is related to sodomy (at least in most cases). However, this does not mean they are the same thing. I'm related to my sister. That doesn't make us the same person.You can be a homosexual and never have anything to do with sodomy your entire life. But it seems people keep thinking they are the same thing since they are somewhat related to each other.

 

If people are saying things like "homosexuality is a sin" they are flat out wrong and either using words wrong or not understanding the words they are using. :|

[Ice_nine]

straight people can engage in sodomy too. Calling homosexuals sodomites is really a misnomer.

[PhuturePriest]

If people are saying things like "homosexuality is a sin" they are flat out wrong and either using words wrong or not understanding the words they are using. :|

 

[CatholicsAreKewl]

straight people can engage in sodomy too. Calling homosexuals sodomites is really a misnomer.

I smell a new debate topic!

Edited May 23, 2013 by CatholicsAreKewl

[PhuturePriest]

straight people can engage in sodomy too. Calling homosexuals sodomites is really a misnomer.

 

I know they can. That's why I said "in most cases".

[IcePrincessKRS]

straight people can engage in sodomy too. Calling homosexuals sodomites is really a misnomer.

 

Anal sex is a sin for straight people, too. :|

[CatholicsAreKewl]

I know they can. That's why I said "in most cases".

Wait, but is it? I'm curious now. That's assuming that most straight couples don't engage in sodomy. What's the estimated percentage of gay people in our population, maybe 10ish percent? Hmm, I wonder how this all adds up...

[dominicansoul]

I find this booklet very informative and helpful for the topic at hand.  It's written by Father John Harvey, the founder of Courage:

 

 

http://www.kofc.org/un/en/resources/cis/cis385.pdf

 

[CatholicsAreKewl]

Anal sex is a sin for straight people, too. :|

Err, not to be vulgar, but does the whole "as long as the right things end up in the right place" apply in this scenario? I thought it was kind of vague as to whether anal sex is actually a sin with that considered. 

[PhuturePriest]

Err, not to be vulgar, but does the whole "as long as the right things end up in the right place" apply in this scenario? I thought it was kind of vague as to whether anal sex is actually a sin with that considered. 

 

Theologians disagree on the subject. The Church hasn't really made an official statement, so it's more of a "Go by your informed conscience" type of thing.

[Little Flower]

I don't know who you are or where you're from but homosexuality is not a disorder that needs treating like diabetes or cancer or something. What an ignorant thing to say!

It is not a sin to be gay. How dare you suggest that homosexuals are sinners simply because they are. And how dare you suggest they are in need of some kind of help!

If this is not at all what you meant to imply, perhaps you will rethink how you present your opinions on the matter.

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I did try to be but I know its hard to convey exactly what you mean in an online post where you can only read words that people type and don't really get the whole context of what they're saying.

 

I don't in any way mean that it is a sin to be gay! I never meant to say or imply that! I'm sorry I wasn't clear, I guess what I should have more clearly said is that immoral homosexual relationships are intrinsically sinful. In addition, I will admit that there are probably many homosexuals in clearly immoral relationships who yet may have incurred no sin because of ignorance and stuff.

 

 

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,¹⁴¹ tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."¹⁴² They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

 

Here the Catechism states that homosexuality is a disordered affection. I don't know how I would feel if I was actually gay, but I would think I would like to be straight. I know I'm no expert on the matter, but I think it might be possible to "cure" the disorder. As far as I know they have stuff to rehabilitate pedophiles and stuff, and thats just another case of disordered affection. But of course I admit I really don't know anything about how that all works and so you might be right that its not something you can cure, so sorry if I said something incredibly ignorant and dumb.

 

Also, I do think that the analagy between homosexuality and pedophilia is valid. Acting on pedophile attractions is illegal, someone pointed that out. But something being against the law is almost irrelevant. Killing someone would be wrong whether or not the law forbade it. Morality of an action is based on moral law, not state law. Someone said that pedophiles are intentionally hurting children. That is true. However, I have been taught that in gay sex, the pleasure comes from hurting the other person, unlike in straight sex. (Not being gay myself I don't know that first hand, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong) At any rate, since anything that is wrong and against the moral law does end up hurting everyone, gay people are hurting the others when they have immoral relationships.

 

 

Now just to be clear, I'm talking about LGBTQ people in immoral relationships, not when they are living celibate lives. I don't believe that homosexuals are sinners just because of their orientation; however, I do believe that the immoral relationships that those people often engage in are sinful. I do not judge individual persons on whether or not they are in sin, that is for God to do. Only he knows what is in their heart, since whether they know what they are doing is wrong, how they have been brought up, circumstances in their life, etc. all affect that.

 

Franciscanheart,  I think you misunderstood me. I am truly sorry if I was not clear and have hurt anyone. I don't think I am the judgmental hating person I think you have taken me for. It can be hard to clearly convey what you mean in an online post. So I'm sorry.

 

And I'm sorry for this really long post too :)

[IcePrincessKRS]

Err, not to be vulgar, but does the whole "as long as the right things end up in the right place" apply in this scenario? I thought it was kind of vague as to whether anal sex is actually a sin with that considered. 

 

Eh, yeah, I thought of the other aspects of my statement after I posted but I had to leave the computer for a bit and was too lazy to hurry back and make corrections before anyone replied. Sodomy technically refers to full oral or anal sex between straight people, or any sex between gay people (dictionary definition, people). But what those theologians would make a distinction between would be oral/anal stimulation (foreplay with intercourse ending "in the right place") and oral/anal sex (where sex comes to completion outside of "the right place.")  (And NONE of that is the same thing as being homosexual---this post is now totally on topic, right?)

 

Also, basically,

 

Theologians disagree on the subject. The Church hasn't really made an official statement, so it's more of a "Go by your informed conscience" type of thing.

 

This.

[Papist]

I smell a new debate topic!

I smell a locked thread.

[dominicansoul]

 

The time has come, however, to refine our use of the term

homosexual. A much better term than “homosexual person” is the

following: a person with same-sex attractions. The distinction is not merely

academic. Instead of referring to “homosexual persons,” which implicitly

makes homosexuality the defining quality of the people in question, we

can put things in clearer perspective by referring to men and women with

same-sex attraction. A person, after all, is more than a bundle of sexual

inclinations, and our thinking about same-sex attraction (hereafter SSA) is

clouded when we start to think of “homosexuals” as a separate kind of

human being. “The human person, made in the image and likeness of

God, can hardly be adequately described by a reductionist reference to his

or her sexual orientation . . . every person has a fundamental identity: the

creature of God and by grace, His child and heir to eternal life”

(Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Letter on the Pastoral Care of

Homosexual Persons, 1986, no. 16). ---Fr. John Harvey, Founder of Courage

 

 

 I've read Fr. John Harvey before, and his little booklet can address some of the confusion some may have on this topic.  He truly was a priest devoted to the care and love of persons who struggled with same sex attraction...May God rest his soul.

 

In case you missed it the first time:

 

http://www.kofc.org/un/en/resources/cis/cis385.pdf

[KnightofChrist]

Err, not to be vulgar, but does the whole "as long as the right things end up in the right place" apply in this scenario? I thought it was kind of vague as to whether anal sex is actually a sin with that considered. 

 

Sodomy/anal sex between married couples also called sodomia imperfecta is a grave offense against the natural law, and yes it is despite what you may hear suggested from others a sin.