Gay: Born That Way?

[dUSt]

Personally, I think "being gay" meaning, choosing a gay lifestyle, simply means that a person is choosing to live a sinful lifestyle. Same as people who are sexually active outside of marriage. Same as people who live a dishonest life of theft and crime. Same as people who choose to live a life of selfishness and gluttony. Same as married people who are not open to life. Gay acts are sinful, just like a long list of other sinful acts, and we all, gay and straight, should be trying to destroy that sin in our lives and be holy.

[Guest]

Dust I like your example about the adultry but here's where it fails in my mind....If someone is born gay and that's the way they really are then it doesn't seem right to say you can't be with a person you love or you're going to hell...If "sam" is born gay and has no attraction to females then honestly it doesn't seem right to say he's going to hell if he were to marry another man he loves and be faithfull to him...Again I always thought "Sam" made a choice to be gay therefore I could see how it was wrong....But if Sam has no choice in the matter then it changes everything for me...I'll still side with the Church although its something I nolonger understand....Because ya you commiting adultry is wrong but it seems a bit unfair to say "sam" is wromg in the same way because he wants to marry and love someone he was born to be attracted to and love...

[Guest]

I wish it was a simple people weren't born gay...I really thought that's the way it was...

[dUSt]

Dust I like your example about the adultry but here's where it fails in my mind....If someone is born gay and that's the way they really are then it doesn't seem right to say you can't be with a person you love or you're going to hell...If "sam" is born gay and has no attraction to females then honestly it doesn't seem right to say he's going to hell if he were to marry another man he loves and be faithfull to him...Again I always thought "Sam" made a choice to be gay therefore I could see how it was wrong....But if Sam has no choice in the matter then it changes everything for me...I'll still side with the Church although its something I nolonger understand....Because ya you commiting adultry is wrong but it seems a bit unfair to say "sam" is wromg in the same way because he wants to marry and love someone he was born to be attracted to and love...

 

What about a married man who falls in love with his co-worker? What if he realizes that the woman he married is not his "true love"? It is not his fault he is born with the desire to love women. That's the way he is. That's the way God made him.

 

See, he always has a choice. Most times, our choices must deny our "natural urges", and instead conform to the will of God. If we only do what we think we were born to do, then we become our own Gods.

[Socrates]

I'm the original poster and I am positive I made no suggestion that we use biological hypotheses to excuse anything.

 

I never said you did.

 

However, plenty of people do - I was criticizing the common mentality of "gays are born that way; therefore, there's nothing wrong with homosexual activity, gay marriage, etc."

I didn't say this was your position, I was simply giving my $.02 on the topic, explaining how the underlying problem behind this is the whole mentality that people should always follow their sexual urges, whatever they may be, and that sexual self-control is wrong or unrealistic.

Unfortunately, this attitude is very widespread in our culture today, so I thought it was worth addressing.

 

Personally, I sincerely did not know what your purpose was in making this poll, which was why I asked.

 

 

I think it's pretty telling that so many have experienced such immature, knee-jerk reactions to a very simple question. That's all it was: a question.

I think it's pretty telling that so many assume whatever I say is a personal attack or accusation about them.

 

I don't think anything I posted there was immature (other than maybe the Reverend Horton Heat video).

Really, it's not always about you.  I apologize if my post gave this impression.

[Socrates]

I love conversing with you, even if we tend to disagree a bunch (I still owe you a reply, I'll get to that soon). I think we should be careful about how we address this issue. No one really knows what to classify gayness as exactly, but the way it is phrased in the above statements makes it appear as if attraction is something we can manipulate willfully. I understand that you are a realist, but it might be unnecesary to emphasize the connection between original sin and gayness. Acting on suicidal ideations is also sinful but I wouldn't tell someone that their depression was caused by the fall of man.
 

 

 

Personally, I think homosexual tendencies can be overcome, either through a life of disciplined and prayerful celibacy, or, in some cases, being able to successfully transition from homosexuality to a "straight" life.  

While I realize that this is controversial (due largely to the way this issue has become politicized), I do not think we can simply discount as lies or propaganda the testimony of all those who have made such a transition.  To do so, I think, shows a rigid ideological bias.

People overcome or change their tendencies in many other areas of their behavior, so I don't think it impossible when it comes to sexuality.

 

 

And, yes, as a believing Christian, I believe that depression is the indirect result of original sin just as much as homosexuality.

In an unfallen world, there would not be any homosexuality, depression, or other sexual, mental, psychic, or physical disorders.

 

Obviously, if you're not Christian and don't believe in original sin and the fall of man, you will not agree, but I will speak my beliefs whether others agree or not.  I think for a Christian audience, it's an important point to make.  Homosexuality is really not that different than any number of other disordered tendencies we fallen human beings all experience.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Socrates

[Socrates]

fxd   I have nothing meaningful to contribute, so I'll call names, as usual.

 

Fxd

[Winchester]

I never said you did.

 

However, plenty of people do - I was criticizing the common mentality of "gays are born that way; therefore, there's nothing wrong with homosexual activity, gay marriage, etc."

 

Right. Which wasn't really the topic. You lack focus!

I expect better of you, Socrates. The others who failed to stay on target irritate me, but none disappointed me so much as you.

[Socrates]

Right. Which wasn't really the topic. You lack focus!

I expect better of you, Socrates. The others who failed to stay on target irritate me, but none disappointed me so much as you.

 

What I talk about is the topic.

 

I don't think we talk enough about anarcho-capitalist principles and the evils of the State.

 

 

Sorry, I was forgetting that Phatmass threads are not for discussion of larger issues, but must stay limited to back-and-forth personal attacks and snark. I'll try to be more focused next time.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Socrates

[Winchester]

What I talk about is the topic.

 

I don't think we talk enough about anarcho-capitalist principles and the evils of the State.

 

 

Sorry, I was forgetting that Phatmass threads are not for discussion of larger issues, but must stay limited to back-and-forth personal attacks and snark. I'll try to be more focused next time.

 

You haven't the wisdom to go off topic in the proper way. Perhaps one day.
 

[Socrates]

You haven't the wisdom to go off topic in the proper way. Perhaps one day.
 

 

Anarky roolz!

[Adrestia]

blah blah blah

 

Aren't we due some cute photos?

[Winchester]

Anarky roolz!

 

You're reinforcing my case.

[White Knight]

For most of the homosexual people I have met in my life, they all have had serious issues with "lack of solid female and/ or male role models." Also most of them have had horrible relationships with dating the opposite sex, and it changes their behavior and thinking because of the experiences of their dating. The childhood growth is important to factor in because it involves the lack of role models, and heavy abuse in the cases of children having same gender relations with the abusers, which influence the child's thinking on their own personal sexuality.

[4588686]

For most of the homosexual people I have met in my life, they all have had serious issues with "lack of solid female and/ or male role models." Also most of them have had horrible relationships with dating the opposite sex, and it changes their behavior and thinking because of the experiences of their dating. The childhood growth is important to factor in because it involves the lack of role models, and heavy abuse in the cases of children having same gender relations with the abusers, which influence the child's thinking on their own personal sexuality.