franciscanheart Posted May 18, 2013 Author Share Posted May 18, 2013 (edited) While there's likely some sort of biological component which predisposes some individuals more than others (as with any other human behavioral tendency), I don't think anyone is truly born gay. I don't think any infant came out the womb with sexual desires for the same sex (or any sexual desires at all for that matter). Nor do I believe sexual "orientation" to be utterly set in stone from the beginning. Identical twins (which share both the same genes and womb environment) don't always grow up to have the same sexual "orientation." Like many other traits, it's probably a complex interaction of nature and nurture factors, and I think homosexual tendencies can (and sometimes are) overcome. That said, I'm really not sure what the point of this thread is. Whether the cause of homosexuality is biological or not has absolutely no bearing on the immorality of homosexual activity, the disordered nature of homosexual desires, nor the wrongness of "gay marriage" and "civil unions." Ultimately such desires and tendencies are the result of original sin - like all disordered tendencies, which we all have in some area to some degree. And we should all work to overcome our disordered tendencies (whatever they may be), rather than try to make them the root of our identity, and be slaves to them. Using biological hypotheses to excuse sinful behavior is symptomatic of the widespread "if it feels good, do it mentality" that people must follow their every sexual urge. Anyway, I think we should conclude with a word of prayer on the topic from the Reverend Horton Heat I'm the original poster and I am positive I made no suggestion that we use biological hypotheses to excuse anything. I think it's pretty telling that so many have experienced such immature, knee-jerk reactions to a very simple question. That's all it was: a question. Instead of just answering the question, we ended up with everyone's opinion on everything related to homosexuality and sideways accusations of somehow supporting the "homosexual agenda". I've never once said that gay sex was moral. I've never once suggested "gay marriage" should be legal. All I did was ask a question about people's understanding of homosexuality. Do I think many here are ignorant? Yes. Do I strongly disagree with most of the theories presented? Yes. But that doesn't mean I'm preaching something immoral or that I'm somehow supporting the "gay agenda". Edited May 18, 2013 by franciscanheart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicsAreKewl Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 (edited) Ultimately such desires and tendencies are the result of original sin - like all disordered tendencies, which we all have in some area to some degree. And we should all work to overcome our disordered tendencies (whatever they may be), rather than try to make them the root of our identity, and be slaves to them. I love conversing with you, even if we tend to disagree a bunch (I still owe you a reply, I'll get to that soon). I think we should be careful about how we address this issue. No one really knows what to classify gayness as exactly, but the way it is phrased in the above statements makes it appear as if attraction is something we can manipulate willfully. I understand that you are a realist, but it might be unnecesary to emphasize the connection between original sin and gayness. Acting on suicidal ideations is also sinful but I wouldn't tell someone that their depression was caused by the fall of man. Edited May 18, 2013 by CatholicsAreKewl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Excuse me, but "Hysterectomies" absolutely should not be considered on a list of what I assume you believe are forms of reproductive prophylactics. A hysterectomy is the surgical removal of the uterus and is not at all indicated as a prophylactic procedure, but rather as a surgical treatment for reproductive cancers, among other conditions. Hysterectomie obviously is the wrong word. I'm talking about when the tubes of a women are tied and when men have a vesectami, i think that is the word and i wouldn't have a clue how to spell it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Also Jesus sets lust aside from the other 7 deadly sins and pretty much says if you think lustfully of a married women you have already committed the sin in your heart. Is this just in the case of thinking of a married women which he mentions, or does it have a broader implication on what is and what isn't lust. Personally i hope to one day be free from all sin including thoughts and feelings associated with the action of sin. Usually sin starts in the heart or is conceived in the mind before it becomes an action, you can feel it or think it before it happens. Why not cut the whole damn tree down and cast it into the ocean, and not just dilly dally around it singing pop goes the weasel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 (edited) LUV YAHS. :wave: xoxo Onward christian souls. JESUS is LORD. JC " If you had but a mustard seed of face you would say to this mulberry tree be uprooted and planted in the sea." Like i take this verse as attacking sin at it's roots, not just picking the fruit off the tree of death each time fruit appears. Why not attack the very roots. And maybe i'm wrong but aren't the roots of sin seeded in the heart and mind. Edited May 18, 2013 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 (edited) Like i really do feel for people that struggle with habitual sin whatever form it is in, and how you can start to believe your cursed or something. Keep going to confession, that's all i have got to say, Even if your confessing the same ol same ol for years, and i know it's mega hard and embarrassing and shameful at times to do this, know your not alone, Jesus is with you and he loves you, that is why he gave us the sacrement of confession. Edited May 18, 2013 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisvilleFan Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 I'm the original poster and I am positive I made no suggestion that we use biological hypotheses to excuse anything. I think it's pretty telling that so many have experienced such immature, knee-jerk reactions to a very simple question. That's all it was: a question. Instead of just answering the question, we ended up with everyone's opinion on everything related to homosexuality and sideways accusations of somehow supporting the "homosexual agenda". I've never once said that gay sex was moral. I've never once suggested "gay marriage" should be legal. All I did was ask a question about people's understanding of homosexuality. Do I think many here are ignorant? Yes. Do I strongly disagree with most of the theories presented? Yes. But that doesn't mean I'm preaching something immoral or that I'm somehow supporting the "gay agenda". I'm curious what kind of conversation you would prefer to have in this thread? Obviously you're going to get knee-jerk reactions... that's par for the course. I chose Sometimes, with the exception that any choice is involved. I don't think anyone chooses their sexual identity, although one's actions (especially during adolescense) could greatly influence it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 . I understand that you are a realist unreflective ideologue fxd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicsAreKewl Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 (edited) fxd Hindu apostate! Edited May 18, 2013 by CatholicsAreKewl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 I used to think people weren't born gay...But if people honestly are born gay then I don't know if I can be against gay marriage anymore...I mean if God honestly created a person to be in love with the same sex then why would He hate it ? Because the Old Testement says He does ? There is a lot with the Old Testement that I'm not convinced God gives His 100 percent stamp of approval of...Are any of the stories even non fiction actual real life history ? Not being a smart a** just asking an honest question...Again I have always been against gay marriage cause I believed it was wrong and people weren't created that way they chose to be...But if they are born that way then that changes everything for me on how I look at this subject and how I feel about it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 (edited) I used to think people weren't born gay...But if people honestly are born gay then I don't know if I can be against gay marriage anymore...I mean if God honestly created a person to be in love with the same sex then why would He hate it ? Because the Old Testement says He does ? There is a lot with the Old Testement that I'm not convinced God gives His 100 percent stamp of approval of...Are any of the stories even non fiction actual real life history ? Not being a smart a** just asking an honest question...Again I have always been against gay marriage cause I believed it was wrong and people weren't created that way they chose to be...But if they are born that way then that changes everything for me on how I look at this subject and how I feel about it... God doesn't make people gay. If people are born gay, that means there is something that went wrong. If we are to say God makes people gay, then we should say God makes some people retarded, too. But he doesn't, just as he doesn't make people gay. And I'm not comparing mental retardation with being gay, to be clear. But if we are to say you can be born gay, that means there is something wrong mentally, just as something went wrong if you are born with mental retardation. Edited May 18, 2013 by FuturePriest387 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 (edited) And for the record I'm not for gay marriage...I don't see how a man could be attracted to another man...I think its crazy that they actually are and I don't believe God would make a man this way...I don't get it at all...Not to be offensive but I think its actually sick...With that said I know a gay guy and I'm cool with him...I would never not like him because he wants to have sex with guys...It just baffles my mind because as a guy I think women are so beautiful and I don't see how a guy could think otherwise...But again if he is born this way and created this way it changes everything in my opinion... Edited May 18, 2013 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Future Priest good post...I like the example you used...I didn't think of it that way...It still a tough spot though if even that's the case...To tell a gay person there born this way but God didn't intend it and if they want to marry the person they love they are going to hell...Real tough spot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Delivery Boy, as far as I know, most men have a desire to have sex with women that they are not married to. I am married, and I often find my self desiring other women. Just because "God made me this way" doesn't mean that I believe adultery should be acted upon or accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 It seems pretty obvious to me that the point of this thread is to explore how the various denizens of Phatmass feel about what makes people gay. It's an important question, because learning what someone believes about how people 'become' gay has a huge influence on how they approach other "gay" questions. It also has a tendency to dictate how people treat non-heterosexual people, though not always. The kinds of language people use to talk about it is also indicative of their position. Two people could essentially have the same "position" on what "makes" people gay, but the way they talk about it could be wildly different. I think it's interesting to see the range of opinions presented here, and to hear the reasoning behind them. They've been a bit surprising too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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