Gay: Born That Way?

[thessalonian]

I cannot vote  because there needs to be another option which I believe is the truth of the matter.  I believe that there MAY BE some who are born that way due to a corruption in the genetics, though I don't believe we have found that corruption and so this is speculative.  Some them are born that way due to trama in the womb.  I believe this because there was a study on children born during WWII who were disproportinately gay.  The likely cause seemed to be added stress on the women because the fathers were not around.  Dominant mothers and poor relatinships with fathers seems to have an effect, and I am quite sure there are some that just choose to be that way. 

 

As humans we like the simple answer "X is the cuase" but this is a disorder, a disease.  Cancer and Diabetes have different causes and so. very likely, does this in my view.

Edited May 16, 2013 by thessalonian

[thessalonian]

Ended up going with the sometimes answer because it is closest to what I have stated.

[homeschoolmom]

I refuse to speculate.

[franciscanheart]

My experience has been that people, who grow up with homosexual orientation, are likely to feel that somehow they are ‘different’. In my ministry I haven't met any one who chose to be gay. So I lean to the third proposition though I think it's not that simple. :think: At least not for me.
 
Discovering feelings for someone of the same sex is a confusing and alarming state.  For a young Christian, there is the added sense that somehow God has played a cruel trick on them.  Has he somehow made a mistake and put the wrong gender into the wrong body?  They wrestle with thoughts like, "why has he created me gay and then condemns me?”  And most of all, the question is consuming, "why don’t you answer me?  I have cried in the night and suffered alone in anguish.  Why don’t you just take this away from me?” 
 
Many people go on into adult years, denying what is happening on the inside.  Sometimes they marry.  Some  are told that the best thing they can do is marry and it will all come right.  But this is far from true. 
 
The answer is not in trying to fight and do what is right; it is in finding the love of God.  His love is the fulfillment for us.  This is what we are created for, to know God’s love and his grace.  His grace gives us the ability to take the long journey to wholeness.  His grace will walk us back through the confusion of our lives.  His love will lead us to truth, not just about God, but about ourselves too.   

There is no ‘magic’ formula that can do the trick. I believe Homosexual orientation is something that is threaded through a person’s life from very early years.  If God just took out the ‘gay’ in a moment of time, it would probably unravel the person, as the feelings and inclinations are so much part of the person.  But this doesn’t mean to say that there is no hope.
 
People, who struggle and eventually give up, often have as their goal, the desire to be ‘straight’.  This goal sets a person up for failure.  Failure doesn’t mean that the Bible should be rewritten or the teaching of the Church is wrong.  The true answer has always been in the scriptures and the Magisterium.  The goal is to seek our God and to find the one who becomes our all.  When Jesus is the goal, he aligns us by his power to his Father's design for our lives.  His goal is  to walk toward his holy perfection.  Holiness is his aim. It's as simple and as complex as that. :unsure:
 
Finally I should add that one person whom I am close to put it "I also discovered that God’s love and grace were available for me as I learned to walk this new life, step by step, and day by day.”  He has had many years pass since  things happened in his life, and he would be first to say that it has been a challenge.  But it has been a challenge that has been met by the God who loved him right from the start.  "I have learned to respond to the pain of my wounds in non-sexual ways. I have also been healed of many of those wounds. I also learned to turn to God when I am tempted, and trust Him for all my needs.”

Cappie,

You never cease to amaze me. Thank you, once again, for such a beautiful response. I wish everyone here could see it as you do.

God bless you, Father. You are doing good work.

With love,
"frannie"


p.s. I wish you lived in the states!

[hotpink]

I think that "gay" actually falls into several categories these days

 

1. The "cool to be gay" crowd who now are moving on "it's cool to be bi-sexual" and even more "it's cool to be pan-sexual".  These are primary high school and community college young people who are DESPRITE for an identity, any identity.

 

2.  Those who are caught up in society's boundaries and ascribe sexuality for the desire for intimacy   I think this affects more female homosexuals than males.  Holding hands, piling in a pile to watch a movie, sleeping (just sleeping) in the same tent all should be non-sexual acts, but now when a little girl gives a kiss to her female friend she's automatically called gay.  Our deep seeded fear of touch in America is bizarre.  I know several "Lost Boys" of Sudan.  They grew up holding each others hands, hugging and even kissing...totally platonic.  They had sexual feelings ONLY for women but were very free in their physical body language.  Infact, several went back to Sudan simply so they could "actually feel like other men loved them" and that they could touch their wives without feeling like they were "perverts".  This also goes into the appreciation of beauty.  In America, if you note people of the same gender who look beautiful you are sometimes degraded to the point where actual attraction forms from trauma bond.

 

3. Those who have legitimate sexual feelings for those of the same gender.  I am not sure where it comes from, nature or nurture, though there are some studies that show that children who are born at the end of a sibiling set, especally boys born after at least 3 brothers, are drastically more likely to be homosexual.

[franciscanheart]

I think that "gay" actually falls into several categories these days
 
1. The "cool to be gay" crowd who now are moving on "it's cool to be bi-sexual" and even more "it's cool to be pan-sexual".  These are primary high school and community college young people who are DESPRITE for an identity, any identity.
 
2.  Those who are caught up in society's boundaries and ascribe sexuality for the desire for intimacy   I think this affects more female homosexuals than males.  Holding hands, piling in a pile to watch a movie, sleeping (just sleeping) in the same tent all should be non-sexual acts, but now when a little girl gives a kiss to her female friend she's automatically called gay.  Our deep seeded fear of touch in America is bizarre.  I know several "Lost Boys" of Sudan.  They grew up holding each others hands, hugging and even kissing...totally platonic.  They had sexual feelings ONLY for women but were very free in their physical body language.  Infact, several went back to Sudan simply so they could "actually feel like other men loved them" and that they could touch their wives without feeling like they were "perverts".  This also goes into the appreciation of beauty.  In America, if you note people of the same gender who look beautiful you are sometimes degraded to the point where actual attraction forms from trauma bond.
 
3. Those who have legitimate sexual feelings for those of the same gender.  I am not sure where it comes from, nature or nurture, though there are some studies that show that children who are born at the end of a sibiling set, especally boys born after at least 3 brothers, are drastically more likely to be homosexual.

I know you're a second account. Now, who are you? :disguise:

[BigJon16]

I know you're a second account. Now, who are you? :disguise:

 

 

 

Got em'...

[hotpink]

I know you're a second account. Now, who are you? :disguise:

 

I'm a teacher not an accountant.

[Ice_nine]

 

2.  Those who are caught up in society's boundaries and ascribe sexuality for the desire for intimacy   I think this affects more female homosexuals than males.  Holding hands, piling in a pile to watch a movie, sleeping (just sleeping) in the same tent all should be non-sexual acts, but now when a little girl gives a kiss to her female friend she's automatically called gay.  Our deep seeded fear of touch in America is bizarre.  I know several "Lost Boys" of Sudan.  They grew up holding each others hands, hugging and even kissing...totally platonic.  They had sexual feelings ONLY for women but were very free in their physical body language.  Infact, several went back to Sudan simply so they could "actually feel like other men loved them" and that they could touch their wives without feeling like they were "perverts".  This also goes into the appreciation of beauty.  In America, if you note people of the same gender who look beautiful you are sometimes degraded to the point where actual attraction forms from trauma bond.

 

 

 

well whoever you are, it's a good point. Some speculate this has to do with the Freudian influence. You know since underneath it all we're just a bunch of animals who want to screw and survive, then it therefore follows that these feelings of "love and affection" MUST be the result of some hidden sexual desire I have for that person. I can see how that can cause a lot of anxiety in folks. It sure did for me.

[hotpink]

well whoever you are, it's a good point. Some speculate this has to do with the Freudian influence. You know since underneath it all we're just a bunch of animals who want to screw and survive, then it therefore follows that these feelings of "love and affection" MUST be the result of some hidden sexual desire I have for that person. I can see how that can cause a lot of anxiety in folks. It sure did for me.

 

I feel this way because in college, due to one mistake (not having the long sheets) I had the opportunity to present myself as gay or bisexual.

 

When I watched women (to whom I'm sexually attracted) all pile on one bed and giggle and watch a movie, I didn't want to have sex with them, I wanted to be ONE of them.  I have never felt as lonely being a guy in a college dorm.  If you get within 2 feet of almost touching another guy you are taught to apologize.  I wished I was a gay guy.  They hugged and patted each other on the back.  The most I ever got was a Gibb's style dope slap or a punch in the arm.  And girls babysit!  I love kids but its taboo for a guy to babysit these days.  I HATE THAT.  I am NOT a pedophile because I am a man.

 

I did the traditional get myself a girlfriend thing but was more pressured for sex by the girl than my guy friends.  I don't have sex because I think one should be financially committed to the other person.  One of the reason I like Catholics....they preach it, though apparently many don't follow.  At any rate, i got some nice girlfriend cuddles but that was it.  Without a girlfriend I could go DAYS without anyone touching me.  And there were days when living with a Mormon roommate who didn't have sex, I could imagine us living together, sans sex, but just as a friend. I just wanted a friend. 

 

The fact is that I am not sexually attracted to men, so i don't really know what being gay feels like.  I do know that if I didn't have a family to love me, I probably would of tried out being gay (actually bisexual) becuase I was sick and tired of feeling like no one cared.

[Ice_nine]

it's hard because I think in a lot of ways we've conflated intimacy with love and affection. Maybe that's why there's so much emphasis on finding a romantic partner because if you don't have one then welp, no love or intimacy for you! (Except maybe familial or friend love, but we all know THAT type of "love" *nudge wink wink* isn't the BEST kind).

 

It's even revealed in our language. If I say "we got intimate" no one thinks I'm talking about spilling my deep dark secrets and hugging it out with a dear friend, although that would be an intimate situation.

 

 

I could go on but I'm gonna stop hijacking the thread, even though it might be tangentially relevant :)

[brianthephysicist]

The stuff you guys are talking about is why I make a point to be a little physical with people at my CCM.  There's two people that have told me they're not the hugging type, but everyone else gets hugs, both guys and girls.  There's also lots of congratulatory back slaps and sad people will get a reassuring shoulder rub or hug.  It helps create a family atmosphere and I've seen some people really open up with the extra physical prodding, showing them that they are "one of us", to use the phrasing of hotpink.  I also try really hard to find appropriate times to compliment people and to tell them that they are loved, cared for, & part of our family.

 

As a result, people don't really know what to do with me.  I get the feeling they can't figure out if I'm the most masculine or most feminine guy there.  Half of the time they look to me with this expectant look as if to say "What is the manliest man going to do? We need to follow his example."  and the other half of the time they'll say something like "Look, all the guys are sitting on that side of the room."  "What about me?"  "Oh Brian, you don't count."  :|

[CatholicsAreKewl]

I know you're a second account. Now, who are you? :disguise:

 

How can you tell?

[Tony]

I really think this poll would of turned out differently if asked 5-10 years ago. I really do

[BG45]

I voted sometimes/yes.  I know plenty people who claimed to be "bisexual" because it was cool.  Some of whom, one day were like "Yeah, I just decided I liked [heterosexual gender] more.  So I don't swing that way any more."

 

But I also know a guy who was never attracted to women, that I went through cub scouts with and that was back when I was a little kid.  He's out of the closet these days.  I highly doubt he "chose" his sexuality before puberty and at a time when this sort of thing wasn't discussed at much.

 

I know another guy who wears a mantilla to Mass and really struggles with his sexual identity; he's never asked to have that struggle, and more than once, we've had dinner with friends where he breaks down into tears, because he desperately wishes he was straight.  The magic formula and goals part of Father Cappie's post reminded me entirely of m friend C.