Gay: Born That Way?

[Winchester]

You expected too much of them. Lower the bar.

[Chestertonian]

I was wondering who might mention this first. For the record, if I were doing a more detailed study on this, I would lump you in the "I'm leaning toward no" group.
 
 

 

You'd be wrong.

[Spem in alium]

Thinking about this issue also makes me think about or recall stories I sometimes hear of men and women who have been in a heterosexual marriage for a number of years before realising they are in fact gay and subsequently often leaving their partner.

 

Are people in these instances "born gay" and have just repressed it or not recognised it until that moment? Does society make them gay?

 

I am not entirely sure, but I do agree with Missy - I think rather than actively choosing a sexuality with which to identify, most people come to realise or come to an awareness of their sexuality in time. Thus, I'm inclined to answer "Sometimes".

 

 

[Nihil Obstat]

I didn't ask for opinions on morality. And if by agnostic you mean you don't know, I wonder which way you might lean when you ponder.

I lean towards making no conclusions one way or the other. I mentioned morality to establish why not knowing does not bother me.

[CrossCuT]

 
I studied epigenetics this semester as part of my curriculum. Read some fascinating papers, had it incorporated to my understanding of basic human biology, etc. I don't know that I'd go so far as to say that epigenetics is defining in sexuality, but I do know it's fascinating and has already begun to explain at least some percentage of problems with cancer, metabolic disorders, and other physical problems of similar nature.
 

I dont think ANYONE would say that epigenetics DIRECTLY effects sexuality because the body is way more freaking complex than that haha!

And I dont believe that my post was implying such a thing, if it was my bad.  :spike:

I was merely pointing out that it is a new and interesting field of genetics that may explain social behavior. The whole idea in the nature vs nurture debate that nurture could actually have genetic implications is very interesting.

 

Epigenetics isnt something that is localized to a specific biological system in the body, it can happen anywhere and effect any gene. Methylation, Acetylation, or other various types of modifications dealing with histones and chromosomal density, can change the amount/rate at which a particular gene is transcribed.

It has been noted in mice to cause social changes in the offspring of those who were raised with either an attentive mother or inattentive mother rendering them more withdrawn than those raised by an attentive mother. 

 

But like I said, this IS a new field as Im sure you know so this is just the early stages of understanding. I dont think it is known for certain when/why these modifications happen in the genome but they do know that it DOES happen.

 

I think its wicked cool!  :woot:

Edited May 15, 2013 by CrossCuT

[arfink]

I think it's possible to be born with a homosexual inclination. Original sin and all that. Of course forming it later is possible too. There are stories about that.

Edited May 15, 2013 by arfink

[Tony]

What if my reasoning if someone can be born gay or not is BECAUSE of Morality? If God didn't want anyone to be gay, he wouldn't  let them be born that way.

[PhuturePriest]

One of my friends is gay. He wishes he wasn't, and he would change it in a heartbeat if he could. But he can't. Therefore, he never chose to be that way. Are some people born that way? I do not know. I think it has to do with your upbringing, but that's what I've concluded from the little I've learned about it.

[IcePrincessKRS]

I think that sometimes people can be born gay, and other times it's developed from other factors in their environment. I don't think many people would actively choose to be gay. In fact, I think many, if given the chance, would choose not to be. (I'm not talking about choosing to act in a certain manner, but just the very basic inclination of attraction.)

[arfink]

Many people would also choose not to be attracted to porn. Or chose not to be attracted to alcohol. Or a gazillion other things.

 

I think it's simplistic to say we are born with particular desires, because it implies there is nothing we can do about them.

[Era Might]

What if my reasoning if someone can be born gay or not is BECAUSE of Morality? If God didn't want anyone to be gay, he wouldn't  let them be born that way.

 

I don't think that follows logically. There are all kinds of natural conditions that still need subsequent meaning attached (cultural, social, moral, etc). Economics is one example. The idea of "scarcity" is the basis of economics, but it would not follow that because things are scarce, that necessitates utilitarianism, capitalism, communism, etc. These are all different ways of attaching meaning to a natural phenomenon.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Era Might

[CatholicsAreKewl]

Same here. No idea. I sometimes wonder, though, if some folks call themselves homosexual and really aren't because being gay is trendy and they want the attention.

 

I totally do this. It's counter-culture and pretty cool. I tell people Jeff's my bf, even though we're both straight. 

[CatholicsAreKewl]

I am entirely 'agnostic' on the issue, but honestly I do not think it matters either way in a moral sense.

 

So wait... does that mean you believe the answer to this question is unknown and possibly unknowable? You can be agnostic and still hold a position. There are agnostic theists (I don't take agnostic atheists who refer to themselves exclusively as "agnostic" seriously). 

Edited May 15, 2013 by CatholicsAreKewl

[Nihil Obstat]

So wait... does that mean you believe the answer to this question is unknown and possibly unknowable? You can be agnostic and still hold a position. There are agnostic theists (I don't take agnostic atheists who refer to themselves exclusively as "agnostic" seriously).

Unknown certainly. Unknowable... Probably not. If I accept it as possible that there does exist a genetic reason, then that reason is probably not unknowable.

How about we say currently unknowable, but perhaps not always so? Edited May 15, 2013 by Nihil Obstat

[IcePrincessKRS]

Many people would also choose not to be attracted to porn. Or chose not to be attracted to alcohol. Or a gazillion other things.

 

I think it's simplistic to say we are born with particular desires, because it implies there is nothing we can do about them.

 

My comment about it being possible to be born that way stems from a show I watched several years ago that documented a group of adults in some random rural area that had a high number of homosexual people. I can't recall where it was, or the name of the show. What I do remember was that they did a number of tests on the group of adults they were following and they discovered that a number of the gay women had, for lack of a better term, and anomaly or birth defect in their brains that caused a certain area of the brain that differs slightly, between men and women, in size and shape (can't remember which part) that made the physical make up of their brains to basically be a "male brain" rather than mirror what a woman's brain typically looks like. Maybe they don't want to be that way but they can't help it because their brain is literally wired differently.

 

That doesn't mean that I think that all gay people have some sort of birth defect that makes them gay. Far from it. I don't know why or how it happens to people. I believe that homosexuality can come from any number of factors and is not limited to or exclusive of being born that way.
 

Edited May 15, 2013 by IcePrincessKRS