Gay: Born That Way?

[franciscanheart]

This is the conclusion to the post above, I had to go do something in a hurry and did not conclude;
 
The celebration of Holy Mass is a sacrificial, destructive act. But the miracle of it is that as the body of Christ, the Host is broken to pieces the body of Christ, the Church, is made more whole. We are nourished and drawn together and given the strength to carry on. We are empowered to boldly live in weakness.
 
This is how the power of Christ is made perfect in weakness: that although we are vulnerable we press deep into the suffering of the world and make it our own, although we may receive blows from every direction we refuse to let our capacity to love and forgive be beaten out of us, and although we are silenced and misunderstood we never disdain the sacred act of listening to another and seeking to understand. It seems like I will never cease having to relearn this most basic of truths, and I imagine that is why celebrating the Eucharist will never cease to astonish and amaze me.
 
The fears that plagued me on my friend’s couch are still with me.   And yet I’ve never felt so at peace about this process nor so confident that the Church will be there for me in and through it all. I will be more grounded in the living grace of my God with whom I’ll have sat in blessed silence and more in love with his Church that will sustain me and inspire me to act in truth and humility. Living in Australia  I may never have the pleasure of getting to meet any of you, but I take comfort  in knowing that our many voices sing together in awe of our Saviour and our weary souls dance together toward the table of charity and grace.  :dance3:

I've already started my "Visit Australia / Meet Cappie" savings jar. So far I have fifty-three cents. :|

[PhuturePriest]

I've already started my "Visit Australia / Meet Cappie" savings jar. So far I have fifty-three cents. :|

 

Only about a million more to go!

[EmilyAnn]

This is the conclusion to the post above, I had to go do something in a hurry and did not conclude;

 

The celebration of Holy Mass is a sacrificial, destructive act. But the miracle of it is that as the body of Christ, the Host is broken to pieces the body of Christ, the Church, is made more whole. We are nourished and drawn together and given the strength to carry on. We are empowered to boldly live in weakness.

 

This is how the power of Christ is made perfect in weakness: that although we are vulnerable we press deep into the suffering of the world and make it our own, although we may receive blows from every direction we refuse to let our capacity to love and forgive be beaten out of us, and although we are silenced and misunderstood we never disdain the sacred act of listening to another and seeking to understand. It seems like I will never cease having to relearn this most basic of truths, and I imagine that is why celebrating the Eucharist will never cease to astonish and amaze me.

 

The fears that plagued me on my friend’s couch are still with me.   And yet I’ve never felt so at peace about this process nor so confident that the Church will be there for me in and through it all. I will be more grounded in the living grace of my God with whom I’ll have sat in blessed silence and more in love with his Church that will sustain me and inspire me to act in truth and humility. Living in Australia  I may never have the pleasure of getting to meet any of you, but I take comfort  in knowing that our many voices sing together in awe of our Saviour and our weary souls dance together toward the table of charity and grace.  :dance3:

There are a fair few Aussies around here...once I make my way over there we'll have a meet-up. :hehe:

[4588686]

Alcoholics have the possibility of hiding it.

 

Sure, they should discuss their struggles with friends and family, but they should not have Alcoholic Parades to celebrate their alcoholism.

 

 

Why not?  I just don't get this impulse to tell people how it is and isn't ok the define themselves.  First of all, I think that the comparison of homosexuality to alcoholism is a pretty good showing of why so many queer people feel unwelcome even from really genuine and well-meaning people.  I think that you are genuine and well-meaning but ultimately you analogize homosexuality to a destructive, life-inhibiting disease.  And it is, from the perspective of the Church, I suppose.  

[4588686]

I, unfortunately, have known a few people who introduce themselves as gay people. Literally, "Hello! My name is Amy and I'm a lesbian." It was alarming and off-putting. It would have been the same, I'm sure, if the same person had announced themselves as straight upon meeting them. It puts a little too much emphasis on their sexuality. If I'm not looking to date you, I don't really need to know that right off the bat. You know?

Maybe that's me being a hypocrite; I'm honestly not sure.

 

Do you feel the same way about Christians who wear crosses around their neck or other religious jewelry?

 

 

Edited May 21, 2013 by Hasan

[franciscanheart]

Do you feel the same way about Christians who wear crosses around their neck or other religious jewelry?

Honestly, I don't often notice people's jewelry. [shrug] I also don't know a lot of people who walk up and say, "Hi, I'm Michael and I'm Jewish."

Don't make me the enemy; I think we're on the same team here.

[Chestertonian]

Honestly, I don't often notice people's jewelry. [shrug] I also don't know a lot of people who walk up and say, "Hi, I'm Michael and I'm Jewish."

Don't make me the enemy; I think we're on the same team here.

 

Enemy? Team? Seriously?!

[Winchester]

Enemy? Team? Seriously?!

 

Is your name 'Hasan'?

[Chestertonian]

Is your name 'Hasan'?

 

Is your name 'franciscanheart'?

[Winchester]

Is your name 'franciscanheart'?

 

It's Winchester. Which is basically the same thing.

[Chestertonian]

It's Winchester. Which is basically the same thing.

 

Well played, sir. Well played.

[Socrates]

Aren't we due some cute photos?

 

Bubblicious is in charge of the cute photos dept.  See if I can convince her.

[Socrates]

I kinda hope we can get to a point where we have openly gay priests (who remain celibate, of course). The whole gayness being a taboo isn't really helping anyone. 

 

Actually, there are already many, many more-or-less openly gay priests, and they have generally not been a good thing for the Church.

 

The official policy is that men who are actively homosexual, part of the "gay lifestyle," or who have "deep-seated homosexual tendencies" not be admitted to seminaries, though this policy has been widely neglected (with a number of seminaries infamous as "pink palaces.")

 

The idea is that candidates for the priesthood be free from sexual and other  serious personality disorders - I read a good article by a priest who said that priests should be those who would make good husbands and fathers, yet are willing to sacrifice that good for the higher good of priesthood and spiritual fatherhood.

 

The priesthood should be made of those who sacrifice marriage for a higher calling, not a refuge for those whose disordered sexuality makes them ineligible for marriage.

[cappie]

No Longer Anonymous: Why I Decided to Come Out as a Gay Priest  http://www.patheos.com/blogs/badcatholic/2013/05/no-longer-anonymous-why-i-decided-to-come-out-as-a-gay-priest.html (whole article)

 

"No, homosexuality is not a gift from God, and neither is heterosexuality, metrosexuality, omnisexuality, asexuality, or any of the spreading, metastasizing barcodes by which we categorize unique human beings into sections and subsections and sliding-scales until we can finally sleep at night, comfortable that there is a place for everything and everything in its place, and that we, accurately labeled heterosexuals or homosexuals, belong. I’d sooner set myself on fire than be so comfortably placed, for these “sexualities” don’t exist. Sexuality has no existence apart from people. Sexuality is eminently, beautifully, and incredibly personal, a radical adventure in becoming the self that we are, a self that is neither ghost nor corpse but a synthesis of body and soul, an inseparable union we call the human person. It is not a label, it is a challenge, but we’re so frightened of living as the body and soul that we are — and thus becoming Saints — that we’d much prefer to reduce ourselves into the dust from whence we came, to drift as ghosts inhabiting bodies we can hardly stand to live in."

 

Good point. :like:

[CatholicsAreKewl]

Actually, there are already many, many more-or-less openly gay priests, and they have generally not been a good thing for the Church.

Interesting. How so?
 

 

The priesthood should be made of those who sacrifice marriage for a higher calling, not a refuge for those whose disordered sexuality makes them ineligible for marriage.

I believe the priesthood is at times a "refuge" for gay Catholics partly because they don't feel comfortable talking to other Catholics about their gayness. Some tend to forget that simply being gay isn't sinful. They make the mistake of judging a person for something that may be out of his or her control. This can be resolved if we stop punishing/ostracizing people merely for being gay/having gay inclinations.

I don't think the priesthood is reserved for those who sacrifice marriage for a higher calling. There are married priests, after all. Would you exclude asexual members of society from the priesthood? How about hermaphrodites? It seems silly to argue that God would not call someone to the priesthood simply for sexual reasons. You are requiring a person be attracted to a gender when he is not allowed to have relations. Also, I am curious. Do you believe any of the gay ordained were actually called to the priesthood? 

Edited May 21, 2013 by CatholicsAreKewl