Gay: Born That Way?

[franciscanheart]

I'm curious what the general phatmass understanding or belief is in regards to homosexual Homo sapiens. Pick as many answers as fit. I know they won't all be perfectly worded, so choose the best answers for your beliefs or understanding.

No one will be able to see your poll answers, so please be honest.

[Ice_nine]

I'll make my contribution as short as possible

 

There's certainly some scientific literature that links homosexuality to genetics and pre-natal environment (more so, afaik, for men than women) that is fairly compelling. I think my main issue comes in terms of identity. What makes a certain set of inclinations/thoughts/desires compel someone to demarcate him/herself as gay/straight/etc and why? I think that stuff is almost purely cultural. Even amongst ancient cultures where everybody was banging everyone else there was no one identifying with a sexual orientation. It was a foreign concept cross-historically, and even cross-culturally it seems like a modern, Western phenomenon (although I'm not 100% and that's probably shifting now), but my point is that "genes a, b, and c/ later birth order is linked to homosexuality" is not simply predicated on the data but also of the society that classifies people as gay/straight/bi whatever.

 

 

Also it seems that women are different in that their sexual identity is more fluid/flexible whereas males tend to be more rigidly defined. My anecdotal experience corroborates this, fwiw.

 

 

In b4 the flame war yay

[Nihil Obstat]

I am entirely 'agnostic' on the issue, but honestly I do not think it matters either way in a moral sense.

[CrossCuT]

There is also a young field of study in epigenetics that is able to show how environmental factors and upbringing can have a very physical and direct effect on gene transcription. its super interesting!

[Chestertonian]

I am entirely 'agnostic' on the issue, but honestly I do not think it matters either way in a moral sense.

 

Same here. No idea. I sometimes wonder, though, if some folks call themselves homosexual and really aren't because being gay is trendy and they want the attention.

[Ice_nine]

Same here. No idea. I sometimes wonder, though, if some folks call themselves homosexual and really aren't because being gay is trendy and they want the attention.

 

That's probably an incredibly small percentage of people who id as gay. So small it's probably not even worth talking about.

[Seven77]

 I would tend to agree with Nihil and Chestertonian. But I think I can put a few words on it---the "gay lifestyle" is behavior that is freely chosen no matter what the circumstances are behind the same-sex inclination.

[EmilyAnn]

My opinion is that behaviourally speaking people are not "born" as anything. Nature vs nurture (which ultimately is what the argument boils down to to) is a false dichotomy and really needs to be abandoned. 

I also feel I should add that I reject the idea that gay people "choose" their attractions. 

Edited May 15, 2013 by EmilyAnn

[Winchester]

I think it quite varies, and have no opinion whether one way is more common, or the other.

 

 

"Freely chosen" is what people who don't have a particular attraction to this or that activity say.

[Chestertonian]

That's probably an incredibly small percentage of people who id as gay. So small it's probably not even worth talking about.

 

Probably so. Even when I was vying for attention in high school, that's definitely not something I would've considered.
 

[EmilyAnn]

Probably so. Even when I was vying for attention in high school, that's definitely not something I would've considered.
 

I actually had a conversation on that subject with some friends a while ago and several noted that (at least in this country) in their experience sometimes teenage girls among certain sub-cultures claimed to be bisexual and when they got older and left the sub-culture, shed the bisexuality as well. But such numbers are very small. 

[HisChildForever]

I voted - "I'm leaning toward yes, they are born that way."

[HisChildForever]

My opinion is that behaviourally speaking people are not "born" as anything. Nature vs nurture (which ultimately is what the argument boils down to to) is a false dichotomy and really needs to be abandoned. 

I also feel I should add that I reject the idea that gay people "choose" their attractions. 

 

I agree that nature and nurture both contribute to behavior.

[franciscanheart]

I am entirely 'agnostic' on the issue, but honestly I do not think it matters either way in a moral sense.

I didn't ask for opinions on morality. And if by agnostic you mean you don't know, I wonder which way you might lean when you ponder.
 

There is also a young field of study in epigenetics that is able to show how environmental factors and upbringing can have a very physical and direct effect on gene transcription. its super interesting!

I studied epigenetics this semester as part of my curriculum. Read some fascinating papers, had it incorporated to my understanding of basic human biology, etc. I don't know that I'd go so far as to say that epigenetics is defining in sexuality, but I do know it's fascinating and has already begun to explain at least some percentage of problems with cancer, metabolic disorders, and other physical problems of similar nature.
 

Same here. No idea. I sometimes wonder, though, if some folks call themselves homosexual and really aren't because being gay is trendy and they want the attention.

I was wondering who might mention this first. For the record, if I were doing a more detailed study on this, I would lump you in the "I'm leaning toward no" group.
 

I would tend to agree with Nihil and Chestertonian. But I think I can put a few words on it---the "gay lifestyle" is behavior that is freely chosen no matter what the circumstances are behind the same-sex inclination.

Again, not looking at lifestyle, morality, etc. Just asking if you think people are born with the homosexual inclination.

[MissyP89]

I picked both "Yes" and "Sometimes." 

 

There were a lot of people in high school and college that fooled around or dated people of the same sex because it was an 'in' thing at the time. In those cases it was obviously chosen and most of them live as straight now. (But I suppose we could say those people were more bicurious than actually dealing with an attraction.)

 

Generally speaking I think most gay/bi people come to realize they're gay/bi at some point in their life. It's an awareness of something that was already there more than a choice. 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2013 by MissyP89