My Orthodox Friend Might Be Anti-catholic

[BeenaBobba]

Hi everyone,

An Orthodox friend of mine was recently having a discussion with my Catholic friend. He later said that since Protestantism is more in error than he thinks Catholicism is (and more than we think Orthodoxy is), we should focus much more of our energy on them. Of course, I agreed with him 100%, as I'd rather stress commonality with the Orthodox than argue with them. This is what I said to him:

"I agree with that statement of yours regarding how Catholics and Orthodox should focus more on agreement with each other -- common ground -- and worry about other Christian groups who aren't Catholic or Orthodox. Frankly, I love Orthodoxy almost as much as I love Catholicism. The two really are that close."

And this is how he responded:

"Careful Jen, the surest way to rile up an Orthodox is to tell him that he's just like a Catholic... there are major differences. (and the surest way to rile up a Protestant is also to tell him that he's just like a Catholic; I kept getting that when I lived in Moscow and it annoyed me to no end).

"I think part of it, too, is perspective. If you ask a Catholic, 'what other Christians are very similar to you?' Orthodoxy is at the top of the list. But if you ask an Orthodox 'what other Christians are very similar to you?' the answer will be 'ROCOR, the Ethiopian church, the Coptic church, the Armenian church, and the Syriac church.' So in terms of ecumenicism and Church unity, we are far more interested in dialogue and a return to communion with these groups-- the differences between us and them are so very tiny! But in comparison, the differences between us and Catholicism are quite serious."

Now, of course, there are indeed differences between Catholicism and Orthodoxy, but I think he's exaggerated them. Saying he gets "riled up" when being compared to Catholics seems a bit too close to anti-Catholicism for me. If someone said, "Hey, you're Catholic, right? Catholicism is just like Orthodoxy," I'd said, "Well, there are differences, but you're right to say that they're both very similar." He's a recent convert to Orthodoxy from Protestantism, so perhaps he took some of that anti-Catholicism with him. It does annoy me, though.

Perhaps ROCOR (which is in schism from the rest of the Orthodox Church) is closest to Orthodoxy, but they believe and practice heretical things. For example, they rebaptize converts who have had a previous valid baptism. They even go a step further than we Catholics do with Purgatory and believe in something called "toll booths," where they believe the dead are tortured by devils until the end of the world when they can perhaps go to Heaven. Some of them even believe that no one goes to Heaven or Hell until the Last Judgment. The Coptic Orthodox Church, I believe, does not accept the authority of the Ecumenical Council of Chalcedon, and I think the others might be sketchy on this as well. Perhaps he is right to say that they are closer to Orthodoxy than Orthodoxy is to Catholicism, but I don't like how he makes it seem that Catholicism and Orthodoxy are miles away. Plus, I'm a bit irked at the fact that he'd think a Church that doesn't recognize the validity of a pre-schism Ecumenical Council is closer to Orthodoxy than Catholicism is, although I might not be justified in thinking this way. I just get annoyed when I perceive what seems to be anti-Catholicism -- and anti-anything-that-isn't-distinctly-Eastern as well. Doesn't seem very universal to me. As a Western Catholic, I love both Eastern and Western Catholicism.

Anyhow, should I respond to this, or should I just let it slide?

God bless,

Jennifer

P.S. I'm sorry this is so long!

[phatcatholic]

everyone has their own opinion on this issue.

"to evangelize the Orthodox, or not to evangelize, that is the question."

my only advice would be to inform yourself on both the similarities and differences that exist between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches and then decide for yourself what action to take.

extensive resources on the Orthodox Church can be found [url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=8772"][b]here[/b][/url]

also, a large debate on this issue took place in the debate table somewhat recently, which may help you formulate your opinion as well. you can read it [url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=9772&hl=orthodox"][b]here[/b][/url]

good luck...........pax christi,
phatcatholic

[BeenaBobba]

Hi phatcatholic,

Thanks for responding to my post. I'm not debating whether or not I should proselytize my Orthodox friend, though. My mind is already made up on that, more or less. I agree with the Balamand Declaration, so I don't proselytize the Orthodox. I defend Catholicism against objections they bring against the Catholic Church, but I don't actively seek them out to try to convert them. If they convert due to my defense of the Catholic Church, that's not in my hands. It's all up to God. (By the way, I took part in that long debate. )

Basically, what I'm not sure of, though, is whether what my friend wrote was anti-Catholic -- and more specifically, if I should respond to it if it was. I'm not sure it'd turn into a fruitful discussion, for one, yet it's hard for me to let anti-Catholicism slide. He argued in a way that seemed to me to suggest that Catholicism and Orthodoxy are miles away. I don't believe that's true at all, so I'm not sure if I should add my $.02. I also didn't like how he said that the Orthodox get ticked off if they're compared to Catholics. That struck me as blatantly anti-Catholic. Should I confront him?

God bless,

Jennifer

[phatcatholic]

if its been a couple of days since he last made those comments, then to bring them up now may make it appear as though you are being confrontational or that you are digging up old dirt. ur friend may think, "why is she asking me about this now?"

so, what you may want to do is prepare yourself for what you might say if your friend says anything questionable again. if he does indeed hold anti-catholic sentiments, then that probably won't be the last time he says something along those lines. but, when that time comes you'll be more prepared.

also, if his comments are often ambiguous then you may want to politely clarify his statements before you respond. it could also be that you are taking his words the wrong way. so, an explanation on his part will help you determine how to respond.

of course, all of this is for a later date, if and when he says something that makes you wonder how he feels about your faith.

i hope this helps..........pax christi,
phatcatholic

[BeenaBobba]

Hi phatcatholic,

Thanks for your advice. It was helpful! I've decided to just let it slide, as it would seem weird if I responded now after time has passed.

God bless,

Jennifer

[Guest JeffCR07]

Another thing you may want to bring up in your discussion with him is, as JPII calls it, "The other lung of the Church," that is, the other "rites" or "churches" that remain in Communion with Rome. The largest of these is the Byzantine Rite, though there are many others. Each of these Rites has unique and individual Tradition, inspired just as much by the Holy Spirit as the Roman Rite is. The reason I bring these up, particularly the Byzantine Rite, is because they are even closer to Greek Orthodox than we are (though we are, together, technically one Universal Church). Their mass is in ancient Greek, they have an increased devotion to Mary and the Saints, and an abundant use of Iconography. Mention Byzantine Catholics to your friend, and, if he isnt familiar with them, do a little research and give him some info. I think he would be hard pressed to say that there is a massive, gargantuan fissure between the two, when the only two issues of faith that are in [i]serious[/i] debate are the Petrine Theory (the supremacy of the Pope) and the filioque (stating the the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father [b]and the Son[/b]

[Cure of Ars]

I think the biggest obstacle is the fear that they will loose their identity if they become united with the Catholic Church. I could be wrong but this is my impression. The fear is probably not totally unwarranted because we have stepped on their toes in the past.

I think the exaggeration of differences is just a defense mechanism, which sounds more based on doctrinal principal rather than fear. This is just a hunch. I am no expert on the Orthodox/Catholic relationship.