Holding Hands At The Our Father

[Ice_nine]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W27pfiRg5WQ

 

[Papist]

Why do you kneel after Holy Communion? That isn't in the instruction either.

 

People probably hold hands at the Our Father for the same reasons why you kneel.

 

Because that's the tradition of their family/parish/school, because it helps their hearts pray more effectively, etc etc etc etc

 

You don't have to touch strangers if you don't want to - I don't hold hands either. But the Church has nothing to say yet condemning this practice and it's not the business of the laity to go around policing each others non- proscribed postures at Mass.

 

I remember at my childhood parish we had a new pastor who tried to stop the hand-holding by teaching the people to do the orans position. Did this satisfy anyone? no, instead of accusing people of being touchy-feely hippies, they simply switched to accusing them of priest-envy. Especially the women who did the orans position - these were supposedly wanna-be female priests. Leaving aside that the orans position is in no way restricted to priests (another non-existent rule that the liturgy police made up).

 

And I used to be the liturgy police!!! I used to care sooo much what other worshipers were doing. I watched them like a hawk, and I was a true connoisseur of Masses, I could basically write a review every Sunday of what was pleasingly traditional and what was poorly done about that week's Mass. Then I came to understand that the "New York Times Review of Holy Masses" approach to the Eucharist was withering me spiritually. And I also was fairly uneducated, because sometimes the traditionalist perspective is not even correct when it comes to the rubrics.

 

When and if the Church gets around to setting the laity's postures in stone, then there will be case to be made against hand-holding. But I suspect it will be a while because the Church has bigger liturgical fish in the frying pan.

 

 

I "kneel after Holy Communion" b/c I pray. Kneeling (I prefer to lay prostrate, but would not be suitable within the liturgy) is the proper posture for reverent prayer. And this is what is taught in catechesis. After I finish praying, I sit. Kneeling has significance. My contention is that the holding of hands is meaningless.  When I ask people why they hold hands, all I get is a blank stare then some comment about unity. So my experience is that people really don’t know why they hold hands. So if anyone here does hold hands during the Lord’s Prayer, please share why you do and its meaning. I am very interested in this b/c the holding of hands is not taught.

 

Yes, there is no instruction that forbids the holding of hands. Don’t confuse my view of the holding of hands that I believe it to be an abuse. It is not. The laity are free to do it. It would be an abuse if the holding of hands was to be prescribed.

 

For me, I believe it is very important that I know why I do/say.  This is even if I see everyone doing it and/or I know that there is no instruction that forbids me from doing/saying it. 

 

 

[KnightofChrist]

Holding hands during the Our Father while perhaps not an abuse is an unauthorized novelty. The Holy See alone has the authority to introduce new rites and practices into the Mass. Kneeling after communion is the universal norm, only by an indult or special permission from the Holy See can the faithful be asked (not forced) to stand after communion.

 

Concerning holding hands in the Eucharistic Liturgy the Congregation for Divine Worship in Rome responded as follows:

QUERY: In some places there is a current practice whereby those taking part in the Mass replace the giving of the sign of peace at the deacon's invitation by holding hands during the singing of the Lord's Prayer. Is this acceptable? REPLY: The prolonged holding of hands is of itself a sign of communion rather than of peace. Further, it is a liturgical gesture introduced spontaneously but on personal initiative; it is not in the rubrics. Nor is there any clear explanation of why the sign of peace at the invitation: "Let us offer each other the sign of peace" should be supplanted in order to bring a different gesture with less meaning into another part of the Mass: the sign of peace is filled with meaning, graciousness, and Christian inspiration. Any substitution for it must be repudiated: Notitiae 11 (1975) 226.  [Notitiae is the journal of the Congregation in which its official interpretations of the rubrics are published.]

While this addresses the holding of hands at the Sign of Peace the reasons given apply also elsewhere in the Mass, including at the Our Father.

1) It is an inappropriate "sign," since Communion is the sign of intimacy. Thus, a gesture of intimacy is introduced both before the sign of reconciliation (the Sign of Peace), but more importantly, before Holy Communion, the sacramental sign of communion/intimacy within the People of God.

2) It is introduced on personal initiative. The Holy See has authority over the liturgy according to Vatican II's "Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy" #22 and canon 838 of the Code of Canon Law.

This gesture has come into widespread use, often leaving bishops and pastors at a loss as to how to reverse the situation. For individuals, I would recommend closed eyes and a prayerful posture as sufficient response, rather than belligerence. Most laity, and probably many priests, are blind to the liturgical significance of interrupting the flow of the Mass in this way. It is not necessary to lose one's peace over this or be an irritation to others. Some proportion is required. If asked why you don't participate, simply, plainly and charitably tell the questioner of your discovery. If some chance of changing the practice is possible talk to the pastor or work with other laity through the parish council. You can also write the bishop, as is your right in the case of any liturgical abuse not resolved at the parish level. If your judgment is that no change is possible then I believe you are excused from further fraternal correction.

 

Source:http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/holding_hands_at_mass.htm

[Maggyie]

Kneeling after communion is the universal norm, only by an indult or special permission from the Holy See can the faithful be asked (not forced) to stand after communion.

 

 

Nope.

 

From the GIRM:

 

 

 

 

    43. The faithful should stand from the beginning of the Entrance Chant, or while the Priest approaches the altar, until the end of the Collect; for the Alleluia Chant before the Gospel; while the Gospel itself is proclaimed; during the Profession of Faith and the Universal Prayer; and from the invitation, Orate, fratres (Pray, brethren), before the Prayer over the Offerings until the end of Mass, except at the places indicated here below.

    The faithful should sit, on the other hand, during the readings before the Gospel and the Responsorial Psalm and for the Homily and during the Preparation of the Gifts at the Offertory; and, if appropriate, they may sit or kneel during the period of sacred silence after Communion.

    In the Dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus (Holy, Holy, Holy) until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by ill health, or for reasons of lack of space, of the large number of people present, or for another reasonable cause. However, those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the Priest genuflects after the Consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God) unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.[Sacrosanctum Concilium 40; Varietates legitimae 41]

    For the sake of uniformity in gestures and bodily postures during one and the same celebration, the faithful should follow the instructions which the Deacon, a lay minister, or the Priest gives, according to what is laid down in the Missal.

 

 

Please note the phrase "if appropriate, they may sit or kneel after Communion."  In other words, it's not always appropriate. Please note that sitting has the same status as kneeling in these rubrics.

 

The 2002 GIRM actually said "standing only" I believe. The special permission saying it was OK to sit or kneel if you wanted to, was thrown in there for the latest edition of the GIRM after one of the American bishops submitted a dubium to the Congregation for Divine Worship asking for clarification.

 

Standing for the agnus dei is also the universal posture as clearly indicated by the indult for the United States, making a special allowance for the local custom of kneeling.

[elizabeth09]

At my parish, there are some people who does not hold other people hands, while other people do.  I try not to encourage it.  If someone try to hold their hand out to me, I might do it.  But I guess the head covering give it away.

[Oremoose]

For me i don't enjoy it. I pray better when i can concentrate on the prayer ( I even pray in Latin out of habit) then how sweaty my hands are in strangers  grips. But it annoys me when those around grab my hands and hold them in death grips.

 

The big question I think we should ask ourselves is that is does hand holding helps the Spiritual growth of the community?

[Little Flower]

Is this a great way to show inclusiveness and community, or a rubric-breaking infiltration of feel good Protostantism? Thoughts?

 

you farmer in the dells, you.

 

and you spelled Protestantism wrong LOL. once a bad speller always a bad speller....

[Little Flower]

Catholicism is supposed to be a communicable organism.

What about a Christian Kiss to each other during the Peace?

What would St. Francis do?

And why can't my St Bernard go to Mass?

You know I've heard that that was the original sign of peace...

[Nihil Obstat]

You know I've heard that that was the original sign of peace...

That remains the form it takes during a traditional Solemn Mass.

[havok579257]

how about just stop watching how everyone else prays and focus on yourself.  I really don't care what anyone on here says about not watching others pray if you know what % of your parish holds hands during the Our Father.  People on here really tend to be so interested in what everyone else is doing in mass.  Forget about what others are doing.  Stop watching everyone and focus on yourself.  Close your eyes during the Our Father if need be. 

 

It says something to me about how much someone is really into the prayer when they comment so much about how others pray during the Our Father.

[Ice_nine]

how about just stop watching how everyone else prays and focus on yourself. 

 

How do you do that when people start grabbing at your hands? It's not happened to me, but I believe it's happened to other people in this thread. ht

[CatholicsAreKewl]

How do you do that when people start grabbing at your hands? It's not happened to me, but I believe it's happened to other people in this thread. ht

 

Focus harder.

[Chestertonian]

Focus harder.

 

danielson

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you're welcome

[Nihil Obstat]

danielson

 

 

*Danieru-san

 

Fixed. You are welcome.

[havok579257]

How do you do that when people start grabbing at your hands? It's not happened to me, but I believe it's happened to other people in this thread. ht

 

 

close your eyes and fold your hands.  I doubt it happens frequently or at all that someone just yanks your hand away from itself.  If you fold your hands then people may stick their hand out for your to hold but they are not going to yank your hand over to their.  Close your eyes so you won't see them holding out their hand to yours.  Its really simple and would avoid people having to nit pick what everyone else is doing during mass.