The Monastic Family Of Bethlehem Nuns

[Chiquitunga]

A helpful tip: if you ever make a pilgrimage to the Holy Land, do not imply that Palestinian = Muslim. ;) My boss in Bethlehem is a Palestinian Christian, and once an American visitor asked her innocently when she'd converted from Islam. I thought she was going to attack his eyeballs with her dessert spoon. As it was, she was content to point out that this place saw the birth, childhood, ministry, death, and resurrection of Jesus and it is home to the oldest Christian community in the world, so she and her family had never had any need to convert from anything. They tend to be quite proud of their heritage and 'When did you convert?' is the question most guaranteed to get a grumpy response.

 

Just read an article on this the other day! http://blog.mysanantonio.com/pilgrimcenter/2012/07/living-stones/

 

"Many of them are asked, “When did you convert from Islam?” They answer quite passionately by saying that they are the descendants of the early church. Yes—they were present at Pentecost (Acts 2:11) at the birth of the Church and have been present for 2,000 years."

 

This is all so interesting to read about Israel here from the two of you. I've been researching this a whole lot lately as I really hope to make a pilgrimage before, God willing, I enter again. I have a friend in Bethlehem whom I "met" through a seminarian friend who went over there. She's discerning Carmel too :) I would love to visit her before either of us enter. She can only get a visa to visit Israel this year March 19 - May 12. 

[Gabriela]

Here's the old thread on them where I posted kind of a lot - http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/56995-sisters-of-bethlehem-in-livingston-manor/  This thread was how I found phatmass actually. Those were my first posts here  This was some years ago... I was pretty young when I went over there. I went to the Evangelical Month at Les Montsvoirons, http://english.bethleem.org/monasteres/montsvoirons.php probably the best month of my life! If anyone is ever invited to it, please go!!! Oh my goodness...... It was like another world up there.... Yes, you have to be invited to go and generally discerning with them (although I was not sure, which they knew, but they still encouraged me to go) but beatitude, you could ask anyway. 

 

EJames has also been to several of their monasteries in Europe and knows a lot about them as you'll see in the thread. I believe this is how he found PM too :like:

 

Bookmarked that so I could go to bed and then wound up reading the whole thing straight through anyway. :-P

 

Chiquitunga, this may sound like an odd question, but someone in the older thread mentioned that the food at the monastery is wonderful. Aren't they like Carthusians in that they eat only bread and vegetables? Where do they get their protein from?

 

I think it's so funny that emmaberry went for a visit there. It's always kinda' funny to look back on where people went when you already know where they wound up!

[Chiquitunga]

Hmmm.... I can't remember if sometimes they can eat meat or not.. But I don't believe they only eat vegetables and bread. There was at least one common meal at the Evangelical Month and they ate a pretty ordinary balanced meal.

[Antigonos]

As you're driving from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, you can see it on the right side of the road, just before you enter the "valley" (the tall cliffs on either side) that open out on Jerusalem (after quite a few miles). No?

 

I have not been to Israel since I became Catholic. I returned to the US in 2009 but was only confirmed last year. I have Israeli citizenship, so I could return anytime, but I shudder to think how much I'd owe Bituach Leumi if I ever did, because I haven't been paying their monthly overseas fee nonsense.

 

Are most of the sisters there Arabs? I can't imagine many Jewish women are entering. Or are they all coming from other countries? What is the daily language in these monasteries (the MFB ones)?

 

beatitude, you should be nice to yourself and buy one of their ceramics but not use it for eating/drinking. Just hang it on the wall or put it on a high shelf where you can admire it. :-) I admired them for a long time at the website, too. Their art is just stunning. It's amazing there's so much talent concentrated in these little monasteries. But I guess they have a lot of time to develop their skill!

 

 

The monastery you are referring to is Latrun.  Bet Jamal is to Jerusalem's south, not west.  The monks at Latrun make very good wine, btw.

 

What I know about them comes from a documentary film an Israeli woman made some years ago.  The language spoken by the sisters is French, and AFAIK all came from Europe.  Perhaps the film is on YouTube?

 

It has to be remembered that, relative to the number of Orthodox Christians, the number of Latin Catholics is fairly small -- and, in recent years, harassment by the Muslim Palestinian Authority has led to a mass exodus of Christian Arabs from the region.  Some have moved into Israeli-administered areas, but most, if they can show they have family in the US, try to get US visas.   When I came to Israel in 1976, Bethlehem was still a Christian town; today the majority of the residents are Muslim.  Remember when the Pope came to Bethlehem and his address in Manger Square was interrupted by the call to prayer from nearby mosques?  The volume of the loudspeakers had been deliberately raised, after the mayor of Bethlehem had requested that the Muslim religious authority, for once, mute it while the Pope spoke.

 

Edited May 7, 2013 by Antigonos

[beatitude]

The monastery you are referring to is Latrun.  Bet Jamal is to Jerusalem's south, not west.  The monks at Latrun make very good wine, btw.

 

This is not Latrun I mean. I've never been to that monastery. When I went to stay with the nuns, I hitchhiked from Haifa with a couple of friends, and the car dropped us just off the highway. But as I said, route numbers are not my strong point and there are rather a lot of monasteries round here...

 

 

It has to be remembered that, relative to the number of Orthodox Christians, the number of Latin Catholics is fairly small -- and, in recent years, harassment by the Muslim Palestinian Authority has led to a mass exodus of Christian Arabs from the region.

 

 

 

I don't want to get into a political argument, but I think it's important to realise that this is not how Palestinians Christians see it, and if Phatmassers were to travel to Bethlehem on pilgrimage, this isn't what they would hear. I live with a Christian family (Greek Orthodox father, Latin Catholic mother, Greek Orthodox brother, Armenian sister-in-law, variety of children) and they are very much struggling to cope financially. They are often tempted to go, because it  would be an easier life abroad and they have relatives in a few countries - it would be quite easy for them to get the visas. But they are determined to stay if they can, even though it is a struggle to make ends meet. The church I attend on Sundays is at yet another monastery (Melkite), which opens its doors to the public on Sundays, and it's a similar story with our congregants there.

Edited May 7, 2013 by beatitude

[beatitude]

I hope you have a wonderful pilgrimage, Chiqui. :) Perhaps you could even visit one or two of the Holy Land Carmels? The one in Jerusalem is my favourite so far, although I haven't seen all of them yet.

 

What I know about them comes from a documentary film an Israeli woman made some years ago.  The language spoken by the sisters is French, and AFAIK all came from Europe.  Perhaps the film is on YouTube?

 

P.S. Antigonos, are you sure these were the Sisters of Bethlehem and not the Carmelites? They also have French as a primary language in the house, and I used to have a book of photos of them by an Israeli professional photographer. I think there has been a film too, but I haven't seen that. I was given the book when the relics of Saint Therese came to Bethlehem, but I left it somewhere and now I don't remember the photographer's name.

Edited May 7, 2013 by beatitude

[Chiquitunga]

P.S. Antigonos, are you sure these were the Sisters of Bethlehem and not the Carmelites? They also have French as a primary language in the house, and I used to have a book of photos of them by an Israeli professional photographer. I think there has been a film too, but I haven't seen that. I was given the book when the relics of Saint Therese came to Bethlehem, but I left it somewhere and now I don't remember the photographer's name.

 

Perfect Intimacy by Lili Almog - http://www.amazon.com/Perfect-Intimacy-Lili-Almog/dp/1576873153

[Antigonos]

Perfect Intimacy by Lili Almog - http://www.amazon.com/Perfect-Intimacy-Lili-Almog/dp/1576873153

That's the documentary I meant. AFAIK, they aren't Carmelites.

Chiqui, are you coming to my neck of the woods? I'd love to meet you. Since I can't PM anyone, you can email me at slevami at yahoo dot com if you want.

As beatitude writes, there are many Christian denominations represented in the region. I don't know any other country which celebrates 3 Christmases and 3 Easters.

[beatitude]

Thank you Chiqui. <3 I loved those photos and I was so sad when I lost the book. It was a gift from a friend who has since died, and it was the last memento I had of her.

 

Antigonos, they are Carmelite, French in origin, with a very interesting history in the Holy Land - they were founded from the Carmel at Pau, but by a local saint who was born at Ibilin in Galilee, Maryam Baouardy. There are stories about her to rival the stories of St Teresa, including one quite charming one in which she levitated to the top of a tree and left her sandals behind. She wrote some beautiful mystical devotional poetry, which is pretty remarkable considering that she was thought to be too slow and poor at basic literacy to be a choir nun. She was a lay sister, and to my knowledge, she is the only lay Carmelite nun to have been beatified.

[petitpèlerin]

Chiquitunga, I'm so jealous you did an Evangelical month with them! I visited them at Montvoirons this fall and I was so intending to do the month this summer but, well, God had other plans.

The community's liturgy is both Eastern and Western: their masses are Roman Rite (in the local language), and their office is Eastern Rite (Byzantine, if I remember correctly, and also in the local language). Lots and lots and lots of incense and bells, and the sisters run around kissing icons.

They do eat a lot of bread and vegetables, but they eat other things, too: rice and potatoes and whatever's in season and/or donated. Where I visited there was meat in some of the dishes, and fruit at some meals, and sometimes dessert. It was typical French monastery fare.

[NonNovi]

They're Carthusian habit's aren't they?

 

Yes, they are. Wich is a bit weird because these are sisters wearing the male Carthusian habit (but with veil underneath)...

[beatitude]

NonNovi, some nuns do wear the cowl. It isn't exclusively a male thing.

 

 

Chiquitunga, I'm so jealous you did an Evangelical month with them! I visited them at Montvoirons this fall and I was so intending to do the month this summer but, well, God had other plans.

The community's liturgy is both Eastern and Western: their masses are Roman Rite (in the local language), and their office is Eastern Rite (Byzantine, if I remember correctly, and also in the local language). Lots and lots and lots of incense and bells, and the sisters run around kissing icons.

They do eat a lot of bread and vegetables, but they eat other things, too: rice and potatoes and whatever's in season and/or donated. Where I visited there was meat in some of the dishes, and fruit at some meals, and sometimes dessert. It was typical French monastery fare.

 

If I were called to religious life I would be with these sisters in a heartbeat. :( Sometimes reading all this makes me wistful that I don't have that call. But I discerned pretty thoroughly, and I think I discerned well. It's a case of 'greener pastures' syndrome with me, I think.

[Chiquitunga]

Chiqui, are you coming to my neck of the woods? I'd love to meet you. Since I can't PM anyone, you can email me at slevami at yahoo dot com if you want.

Thank you so much! I'm not sure when exactly yet, or even if. I'll email you to let you know. Pray for me, if it's God's will :pray: I'm researching this lots.. :bible:

Thank you Chiqui. <3 I loved those photos and I was so sad when I lost the book. It was a gift from a friend who has since died, and it was the last memento I had of her.

 

Antigonos, they are Carmelite, French in origin, with a very interesting history in the Holy Land - they were founded from the Carmel at Pau, but by a local saint who was born at Ibilin in Galilee, Maryam Baouardy. There are stories about her to rival the stories of St Teresa, including one quite charming one in which she levitated to the top of a tree and left her sandals behind. She wrote some beautiful mystical devotional poetry, which is pretty remarkable considering that she was thought to be too slow and poor at basic literacy to be a choir nun. She was a lay sister, and to my knowledge, she is the only lay Carmelite nun to have been beatified.

 

Just posted about her in the Carmelite thread bc of our conversation on all of this here :proud: It's so neat you've been there! and are living in the Holy Land now! Wow! Did you talk with the nuns at Bethlehem Carmel? They often let people wear Blessed Mariam's mantle actually. The seminarians I know got to as well as a lay woman I know. In the second music video here from Holy Land Sounds she does too.

 

Bethlehem Carmel & Blessed Mariam of Jesus Crucified "The Little Arab"  http://www.mysticsofthechurch.com/2010/07/blessed-mariam-baouardy-little-arab-and.html

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXr6uBqtQXM

 

 

http://youtu.be/M3xyj0peLnI

 

a little about The Holy Land Sounds - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzOx3SVglS0

 

& the book Mariam "The Little Arab" is available from the Carmel of Maria Regina for $8  :like: http://aquerofoundation.com/id19.html Their Mother Foundress, http://aquerofoundation.com/id2.html  translated it into English, along with a number of other Carmelite writings from French.

 

http://www.carmelholyland.org