Nude Art

[CatholicsAreKewl]

It does not matter what I think, if they provide the temptation then they sin regardless of weather or not I lust.

 

St. John Chrysostom, Doctor of the
Church, taught:
"When you have made another sin in his heart, how can
you be innocent? Tell me, whom does this world condemn?
Whom do judges in court punish?Those who drink poison or
 those who prepare it and administer the fatal potion? You
have prepared the abominable cup, you have given the
death-dealing drink, and you are more criminal than are
those who poison the body; you murder not the body but the
soul. And it is not to enemies you do this, nor are you urged
on by any imaginary necessity, nor provoked by injury, but
out of foolish vanity and pride."

But nude paintings don't lead most people to sin. 

[Nihil Obstat]

I am facing an enormous temptation to spam this thread with classics of nude art. :P But that would be highly tasteless and inconsiderate of me.

[EmilyAnn]

I am facing an enormous temptation to spam this thread with classics of nude art. :P But that would be highly tasteless and inconsiderate of me.

Same :P

[jim111]

Matter of Expiation of Scandal from Immodest Paintings

Extracts from 'Purgatory' by Rev. F.X. Schouppe, S.J.

 

THOSE who have had the misfortune to give bad example, and to wound or cause the perdition of souls by scandal, must take care to repair all in this world, if they would not be subjected to the most terrible expiation in the other. It was not in vain that Jesus Christ cried out, Woe to the world because of scandals! Woe to that man by whom the scandal cometh! (Matt. 18:7)

Hear what Father Rossignoli relates in his Merveilles du Purgatoire. A painter of great skill and otherwise exemplary life had once made a painting not at all conformable to the strict rules of Christian modesty. It was one of those paintings which, under the pretext of being works of art, are found in the best families, and the sight of which causes the loss of so many souls.

True art is an inspiration from Heaven, which elevates the soul to God; profane art, which appeals to the senses only, which presents to the eye nothing but the beauties of flesh and blood, is but an inspiration of the evil spirit; his works, brilliant though they may be, are not works of art, and the name is falsely attributed to them.

They are the infamous productions of a corrupt imagination.

The artist of whom we speak had allowed himself to be misled in this point by bad example. Soon, however, renouncing this pernicious style, he confined himself to the production of religious pictures, or at least of those which were perfectly irreproachable. Finally, he was painting a large picture in the convent of the discalced Carmelites, when he was attacked by a mortal malady.

Feeling that he was about to die, he asked the Prior to allow him to be interred in the church of the monastery, and bequeathed to the community his earnings, which amounted to a considerable sum of money, charging them to have Masses said for the repose of his soul. He died in pious sentiments, and a few days passed, when a Religious who had stayed in the choir after Matins saw him appear in the midst of flames and sighing piteously.

"What!" said the Religious, "have you to endure such pain, after leading so good a life and dying so holy a death?" "Alas!" replied he, "it is on account of the immodest picture that I painted some years ago. When I appeared before the tribunal of the Sovereign Judge, a crowd of accusers came to give evidence against me. They declared that they had been excited to improper thoughts and evil desires by a picture, the work of my hand. In consequence of those bad thoughts some were in Purgatory, others in Hell. The latter cried for vengeance, saying that, having been the cause of their eternal perdition, I deserved, at least, the same punishment. Then the Blessed Virgin and the saints whom I had glorified by my pictures took up my defence. They represented to the Judge that that unfortunate painting had been the work of youth, and of which I had repented; that I had repaired it afterwards by religious objects which had been a source of edification to souls.

"In consideration of these and other reasons, the Sovereign Judge declared that, on account of my repentance and my good works, I should be exempt from damnation; but at the same time, He condemned me to these flames until that picture should be burned, so that it could no longer scandalise any one."

Then the poor sufferer implored the Religious to take measures to have the painting destroyed "I beg of you," he added, "go in my name to such a person, proprietor of the picture; tell him in what a condition I am for having yielded to his entreaties to paint it, and conjure him to make a sacrifice of it. If he refuses, woe to him! To prove that this is not an illusion, and to punish him for his own fault, tell him that before long he will lose his two children. Should he refuse to obey Him who has created us both, he will pay for it by a premature death."

The Religious delayed not to do what the poor soul asked of him, and went to the owner of the picture. The latter, on hearing these things, seized the painting and cast it into the fire. Nevertheless, according to the words of the deceased, he lost his two children in less than a month. The remainder of his days he passed in penance, for having ordered and kept that immodest picture in his house.

If such are the consequences of an immodest picture, what, then, will be the punishment of the still more disastrous scandals resulting from bad books, bad papers, bad schools, and bad conversations?

Vae mundo a scandalis! Vae homini illi per quem scandalum venit! -- "Woe to the world because of scandals! Woe to that man by whom the scandal cometh!

Scandal makes great ravages in souls by the seduction of innocence. Ah! those accursed seducers! They shall render to God a terrible account of the blood of their victims.
 

 

READ THE BOOK HERE

 

[jim111]

 

Matter of Expiation of Scandal from Immodest Paintings

Extracts from 'Purgatory' by Rev. F.X. Schouppe, S.J.

 

THOSE who have had the misfortune....

 

READ THE BOOK HERE

 

 

Summary: It is scandalous to paint something if it causes others to lust after it.

[Nihil Obstat]

I am not really interested in prooftexting. Would you be so kind as to make an argument in your own words?

[TheLordsSouljah]

The human body is not inherently sinful to look upon. That is why your argument is unsound.

Depending on the strength of the individual, though, one should not walk a high wire over sin.

Nihil I thought you would be the first to defend this standpoint.... Beautiful as the human body is, what about the theology behind Eden?

Edited May 1, 2013 by TheLordsSouljah

[Nihil Obstat]

Summary: It is scandalous to paint something if it causes others to lust after it.

Alcohol contributes to millions of people every day committing terrible sins. Is it a sin to produce alcohol? To consume it? To advocate its moderate consumption?

[AnneLine]

Jim,  I really think you might want to talk to a priest or director about this.  There are a lot of solid Catholic people who are giving you their feedback that we think you might be a little off on this.   With all due respect, there is more than one way of looking at this.  Please at least consider that for some of us, these artistic classics are NOT things that lead us to sin, but instead lead us to God. 

 

If they do NOT lead YOU to God, you shouldn't subject yourself to them... but as a generalization, I don't think so....  it really depends on the person and their particular 'occasions of sin'.  For me, I know a particular intersection of a street (surrounded by beautiful natural beauty and a lot of cold and wind) is a much greater 'occasion of sin' and I approach it with great fear and trepidation... because it makes me MAD to have to be there a lot of times.   And THAT distracts me from God.   So that is what "I" need to work on.

 

A torso, male or female, not so much....

[Nihil Obstat]

Depending on the strength of the individual, though, one should not walk a high wire over sin.

Nihil I thought you would be the first to defend this standpoint.... Beautiful as the human body is, what about the theology behind Eden?

Certainly. Prudence is of the utmost important. But I am talking about inherent sinfulness, or lack thereof, and I think that is amply demonstrated.

[jim111]

Alcohol contributes to millions of people every day committing terrible sins. Is it a sin to produce alcohol? To consume it? To advocate its moderate consumption?

 

Alcohol in moderation is good. With the exception of marriage, no amount of lust is ever good, even in moderation it is always an evil.

[Nihil Obstat]

Alcohol in moderation is good. With the exception of marriage, no amount of lust is ever good, even in moderation it is always an evil.

We are not talking about lust though. We are talking about nudity. It is your argument that nudity and lust are completely bound up together. I think this is unreasonable. There can be nudity without lust, and there can be lust without nudity. One does not logically entail the other. Your position is only defensible if nudity always and everywhere leads to lust. I think it clearly does not.

[jim111]

We are not talking about lust though. We are talking about nudity. It is your argument that nudity and lust are completely bound up together. I think this is unreasonable. There can be nudity without lust, and there can be lust without nudity. One does not logically entail the other. Your position is only defensible if nudity always and everywhere leads to lust. I think it clearly does not.

 

That is true, but because of original sin, men are tempted to lust by nudity. This is a biological fact.

[Nihil Obstat]

That is true, but because of original sin, men are tempted to lust by nudity. This is a biological fact.

Man is also tempted to drunkenness by alcohol. That does not demonstrate the inherent sinfulness of drinking, just as your argument does not demonstrate the inherent sinfulness of nudity. Prudence is the mother of all virtue.

[EmilyAnn]

That is true, but because of original sin, men are tempted to lust by nudity. This is a biological fact.

So a male doctor cannot examine a female patient, because he will be tempted to lust?