Feelings Of Intense Frustration

[ToJesusMyHeart]

In the US, we have the option of kneeling or standing.  If one's bishop says that he wants everyone to do one or the other, we should obey him out of respect for his authority, even if we don't feel like it.  So while both are good and holy and acceptable postures according to the Church, a bishop is free and able to make the call about what he wants in his diocese concerning things like this. 

 

So, for example, a while ago when my bishop at the time made standing the norm in my diocese, my priest had to ask permission for us to kneel, otherwise we'd be flouting his authority and that's sinful.  My bishop gladly gave it, though it made for some strange looks and interesting conversations when my parish's youth group went to a retreat put on by the diocese.  Everyone was confused as to why we were kneeling, and we were confused as to why they were standing.  :hehe2: Then my priest explained it to us. 

 

My point in bringing it up is that when we're figuring out which liturgical posture we want to do we have to take what our own bishop has said about the matter into account (if he's said anything at all).  You can't just go over his head and do what you want because that's how they do it in Rome. :)

EmilyAnn, that's not what she seems to be implying here. She's speaking in reference to kneeling for reception of Jesus. She asserted that if the bishop forbids the naughty kneeling behavior, we'd have to comply. This is not the case, as KoC provided evidence for. 

[ToJesusMyHeart]

Perhaps I misunderstand Basilia though. Hopefully she can clarify what she is arguing. I'm defending the universal right to kneel for reception of Holy Communion. If she is arguing the posture for before and after consecration, then I've been mis-applying her quotations. 

 

It is clear from the quote from Cardinal Arinze that bishops cannot mandate standing as the only acceptable posture for reception of Jesus, but seems less clear if they can mandate standing as the only posture before and during the miracle of transubstantiation. 

 

 

[EmilyAnn]

In her last post at least, she is clearly not talking about the reception of the Eucharist, and in the last post you quoted in the context I think it's about before/after the consecration (as that was . She does quote the GIRM referring to posture after the consecration, where it seems clear that bishops do have authority. 

[ToJesusMyHeart]

As long as we all agree that bishops cannot force people to stand for reception of Jesus, then I'm not interested in any other arguments. :)

[Basilisa Marie]

Well, in honesty, my argument has shifted a bit over the course of the thread.  I may or may not had been hoping no one would notice, haha. :)  Y'all caught me.  

 

My point now is that a bishop DOES have the authority to make a call about liturgical postures at some points in the liturgy of the Eucharist, and when our bishop does exercise that authority, we have to obey him, even if we don't like it.  

 

Though personally speaking I think it's crud for a priest to offer "pastoral correction" for someone who wants to kneel to receive, just because it's conspicuous, and I'm glad it's no longer a thing.   

 

Question for you guys, though - do you kneel or remain standing after the Sanctus?  I can't remember which one I do more often, probably because I should pay attention more.  I know I've done both within the last six months, but I've also been in three difference dioceses in the last six months.  Does it matter to you guys?  

[ToJesusMyHeart]

Well, in honesty, my argument has shifted a bit over the course of the thread.  I may or may not had been hoping no one would notice, haha. :)  Y'all caught me.   

:detective:

 

 

My point now is that a bishop DOES have the authority to make a call about liturgical postures at some points in the liturgy of the Eucharist, and when our bishop does exercise that authority, we have to obey him, even if we don't like it.  

 

  Yes, but the authority cannot mandate posture for Holy Communion. :)

Though personally speaking I think it's crud for a priest to offer "pastoral correction" for someone who wants to kneel to receive, just because it's conspicuous, and I'm glad it's no longer a thing.   

Amen to that.

 

Question for you guys, though - do you kneel or remain standing after the Sanctus?  I can't remember which one I do more often, probably because I should pay attention more.  I know I've done both within the last six months, but I've also been in three difference dioceses in the last six months.  Does it matter to you guys?

 

 

I always kneel. It matters to me greatly. In my life, I use standing as a posture of defiance. I don't want to do that to God. So I kneel, which for me puts my heart in the proper reverent state to worship.  :pope2:

[PhuturePriest]

:detective:

 

 

  Yes, but the authority cannot mandate posture for Holy Communion. :)

Amen to that.

I always kneel. It matters to me greatly. In my life, I use standing as a posture of defiance. I don't want to do that to God. So I kneel, which for me puts my heart in the proper reverent state to worship.  :pope2:

 

I will be able to answer her question as soon as someone tells me what the Sanctus is. :P

[ToJesusMyHeart]

Acclamation                                                                  Acclamation

A:  Holy, holy, holy Lord.                A:  Sanctus, Sanctus, Sanctus,
    God of power and might.                   Dòminus Deus Sàbaoth.  
    Heaven and earth are full                 Pleni sunt caeli et terra 
    of your glory.                            in glòria tua. 
      Hosanna in the highest.                   Hosànna in excèlsis.  
    Blessed is he who comes                   Benedictus qui venit 
    in the name of the Lord.                  in nòmine Dòmini.  
      Hosanna in the highest.                   Hosànna in excèlsis.

[Nihil Obstat]

I will be able to answer her question as soon as someone tells me what the Sanctus is. :P

Sanctus Sanctus Sanctus, dominus deus sabaoth, etc..

[Nihil Obstat]

Drat, beaten by my traddy buddy. :smile3:

[ToJesusMyHeart]

:P

[PhuturePriest]

Acclamation                                                                  Acclamation

A:  Holy, holy, holy Lord.                A:  Sanctus, Sanctus, Sanctus,
    God of power and might.                   Dòminus Deus Sàbaoth.  
    Heaven and earth are full                 Pleni sunt caeli et terra 
    of your glory.                            in glòria tua. 
      Hosanna in the highest.                   Hosànna in excèlsis.  
    Blessed is he who comes                   Benedictus qui venit 
    in the name of the Lord.                  in nòmine Dòmini.  
      Hosanna in the highest.                   Hosànna in excèlsis.

 

 

Sanctus Sanctus Sanctus, dominus deus sabaoth, etc..

 

Where is this in the Mass?

[ToJesusMyHeart]

Uhhhhh.................................................................. :|

[ToJesusMyHeart]

.

Edited May 3, 2013 by ToJesusMyHeart

[Nihil Obstat]

Immediately preceding the Canon.