Fully Encrypted Video Conference Confession

[dells_of_bittersweet]

So the Catholic Church teaches that Confessions given over the phone are not valid because it is unknown who else could be listening in. Also there is the issue of it being impossible to verify that the person on the other end is really a priest. Finally, there is the problem that the nature of the telephone provides perhaps too great an anonymity to the penitent.

Now it is my understanding that Church teaching on this matter is not completely final and some nuance could theoretically develop over time with greater understanding of technology. So I was wondering if there are any conceivable ways that long distance communication could be used in a valid confession.

I have a proposal about how this could be done that addresses all the problems that make telephone confessions invalid. Each Diocese could set up a highly encrypted video conferencing confession service. That way, penitents would know for sure that a real priest was on the other end, and the risk of the confession being overheard would be at least as low as it would be in person, assuming the data was processed at a level of security comparable to the systems used by most banks. Finally, to avoid abuse of the system by those trying to gain the maximum possible amount of anonymity, penitents would be required to use the system from their own Diocese, the access to which could only be gained by setting up an account at your local parish office.

Thoughts?

[jeffboom]

If people intend to go to confession, then they will go to confession. This could help the sick and elderly go to confession, but in the general population I seriously doubt this will make a significant difference. 

[Basilisa Marie]

Possibly, but it would only "count" in situations of exceptional urgency or emergency, not as a norm.  And in those situations, a penitent is already allowed to make an act of perfect contrition with the intention of going to confession as soon as he or she is able.  So it might not even become an issue.  

 

Not to rain on your parade or anything. :|

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

So the Catholic Church teaches that Confessions given over the phone are not valid because it is unknown who else could be listening in. Also there is the issue of it being impossible to verify that the person on the other end is really a priest. Finally, there is the problem that the nature of the telephone provides perhaps too great an anonymity to the penitent.

Now it is my understanding that Church teaching on this matter is not completely final and some nuance could theoretically develop over time with greater understanding of technology. So I was wondering if there are any conceivable ways that long distance communication could be used in a valid confession.

I have a proposal about how this could be done that addresses all the problems that make telephone confessions invalid. Each Diocese could set up a highly encrypted video conferencing confession service. That way, penitents would know for sure that a real priest was on the other end, and the risk of the confession being overheard would be at least as low as it would be in person, assuming the data was processed at a level of security comparable to the systems used by most banks. Finally, to avoid abuse of the system by those trying to gain the maximum possible amount of anonymity, penitents would be required to use the system from their own Diocese, the access to which could only be gained by setting up an account at your local parish office.

Thoughts?

 

 

Sounds good,but your talking a massive budget to get such a system to the level of the u.s. military secrecy and infalibility. The church won't do this because it is feeding,clothing and educating the poor. Contrary to popular belief The holy catholic church in reality is in more than 2 billion dollars debt any given year feeding,clothing and educating the poor, thats what a bishop said after i queried as to why we don't all start paying 10% tithing to get the church universal out of debt, and he said if it wasn't in debt he would be asking serious questions.

 

God bless you.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Maybe Bill Gates or a Saudi Oil Baron could pay for it as a gift, thats how most of the vatican was built supposedly gifts from rich monarchs. But than there would be the up keep of such a system and continuing money drain of upgrading the software daily and hack proofing and all kinds of stuff that the u.s. government spends millions maybe billions daily on it's own system, i don't know the exact cost. 

It's a grand idea but very expensive.

[T-fish]

Why do we have to go when everyone else goes? Then people see that we go. I don't want to be seen. I just want God to hear my confession.

[Nihil Obstat]

Why do we have to go when everyone else goes? Then people see that we go. I don't want to be seen. I just want God to hear my confession.

Hide your face then. Nobody needs to know it is you. Or make appointments for private confession.

[TheLordsSouljah]

Why do we have to go when everyone else goes? Then people see that we go. I don't want to be seen. I just want God to hear my confession.

We are all sinners. If anyone judges you they need to take a look in the mirror. Point is, if there was a wall between me and God, I don't care who would see me in a bulldozer.

[PhuturePriest]

Who cares if someone sees you in line for confession? I can't help but smile at everyone whenever I'm in the line for confession. It's such a happy and joyous occasion that even the Angels and Saints celebrate. Why would you want to hide your face on an occasion where even Heaven rejoices?

[T-fish]

I do go to private but once in awhile i'm bored and I like the gregorian chant music they play for the white noise effect.

The people on Saturday even strategically sit so that they are first in line for confession. oy vey.

I can't deal with seeing that....i might have to go to confession for something else ;)

 

Have mercy on me God according to your loving kindness....

[BarbTherese]

I think that we are all 'built' differenly as it were, while our personality might fall into a certain grouping as it were.  Some find it very easty to talk and attend Confession than others, some find it absolutely difficult.  Some have no difficulty going to Confession, while for others it is a trial and for some it can be a serious trial.  Individual and private confession was quite a late arrival in The Church, insofar as one can trust wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacrament_of_Penance_(Catholic_Church)#History .

 

Nowadays it seems that celebration of The Sacrament of Penance amongst Catholics has fallen right off.  I know that here in South Australia in the main, due to our shortage of priests and the increasing workload our priests do have often with two or even more parishes combined into the one parish, Confession is only heard by appointment. This does mean, of course, that if one wants to not identify oneself in Confession, one has no choice but to do so.  Our busy priests were sitting in the Confessional very often and no one attended most often.  To my way of thinking, this "By appointment only" confessions is not at all a good idea, not one little bit and is discouraging many Catholics from Reconciliation.

 

For quite a while here in South Australia, our then Archbishop authorized the Third Form of Confession within parishes.  But apparently according to rumour this was stopped by Rome.  Interestingly, many did attend the Third Forum regularly and once it was cancelled, Confessions dropped off far more than ever before.  The general notion amongst Catholics seems to have been that if the Third Form was an actual approved form of celebrating the Sacrament of Reconciliation, then why go to First Form and why can't we have Third Forum - hence attendance at First Form dropped right off from a slight flow of attendance to a trickle if that and in the main dropped right off entirely with people just not going to Confession.

 

We have so many rules and regulations and they really do abound in their hundreds, if not thousands, since one rule can challenge another and why we have moral theologians to deal specifically in moral theology, canon lawyers to interpet canon law.  The ordinary Catholic really is confused and sometimes even educated Catholics are confused on certain points too.  Just glance through an Apologetics forum on a Catholic Discussion Site.   Or even "Ask Father" type of Forum where only a priest responds - but no other poster.

I must admit that I am sick to death of rules, rules and more rules.  I often recall that song lyric by Credence Clearwater Revival "signs (rules), signs, everywhere a sign.  Can't you read the signs?" and to me that final sentence refers to "Fools that can read the signs of the weather, but cannot read the signs fo the times".  Nowadays in the main, we cannot even read the weather correctly, let alone the signs of the times.

I recall the nun who taught me in College saying "always keep your eyes on the middle east" and now there are problems militarily on the Lebanon/Syrian border, with Lebanon getting very upset because Syrian religious factions are calling to the same factions in Lebanon to join them in the fray in Syria - and in a certain town in Lebanon, Syrian fractions are attackng because it is a town containing mainly an opposing religious faction.  Can't we read the signs of the times!!!

[BarbTherese]

What used to upset Jesus an awful lot, was that the Jewish religion of His day had that many rules and regulations it was indeed confusing to the man in the street as it were.  The Law had become an endless burden on the ordinary person while those "in the know" of one interpretation or another of Scripture felt safe and in God's favour since they followed their particular understanding of Scripture and associated rules and regulations  and scrupulously so and following rules and regulations was their total focus ensuring their salvation they felt.  Jesus points out it is all about LOVE of God through love of neighbour, which is sort of a summary of Scripture. Jesus in His public ministry challenged the teaching and position of religious leadership and with down to earth logic in parables and an excellent knowledge of Scripture. The poor ordinary person hence who could constantly feel under the burden of the Law and condemned not able to keep them all at times and for one reason or another, found much comfort and consolation in Jesus and His interpretation of what it is all about.  This was dangerous to those ruling factions in the religion of His day.  They had to get rid of Him because He was developing quite a following amonst the people. And the ruling factions of the Jewish religion back then had quite an income, living quite comfortably, from temple taxes of one kind and then another, which all had to pay or put their soul in jeapardy including the poor.

 

Went to Confession last Saturday as my health is not the best right now and I was very honest with Father and told him if my health should prove serious and terminal, then my main resource almost with absolute confidence and investment in the dying business would be the Love and Mercy of The Lord.  "Lord please remember me now you are in Paradise, for I am a sinner and desperately in need of Your Mercy".  We did discuss later since no one else went to Confession the subject of Reconciliation and Father commented "I think The Church (heirarchy that is!) has shot Herself in the foot" - i.e. by trying to force Cathollics to go to individual confession via this means and that, the result has been that hardly anyone attends................indeed "shot Herself in the foot" - and not only on the subect of Reconciliation.

Edited May 1, 2013 by BarbaraTherese

[BarbTherese]

Interestingly just to hijack for a minute - and yet not
  :spammer:.  In Time Magazine back in the seventies I think it was or somewhere around there when I was getting Time Magazine, I read that the reason Suddam Hussein was not 'brought down' in some form or another because of the horrific things he was doing in Iraq was because the powers that be thought that it just might destabilize the whole middle east.  So we brought him down after9/11  Look at the mess the middle east is in now and with hair trigger points here and there for worse to come.  Intelligence given to those same powers was incorrect about Iraq having weapons of mass destruction (although there is disagreement of opinion on various points between the 'higher ups' (politicians) including intelligence people re what happened at the time and who said what and to whom). How do we know that intelligence currently held and distributed amongst the ruling powers in politics and possible major decisions now made due to held intelligence is actually correct?  We very often are told what they want us to hear. I used to call journalists the 'watchdogs of truth'  I dont any more.  Certainly moreso not after what happened in the UK and the media scandal there.

Psalms 145:2
Praise the Lord, O my soul, in my life I will praise the Lord: I will sing to my God as long as I shall be. Put not your trust in princes:[2] Praise the Lord, O my soul, in my life I will praise the Lord: I will sing to my God as long as I shall be. Put not your trust in princes: [3] In the children of men, in whom there is no salvation. [4] His spirit shall go forth, and he shall return into his earth: in that day all their thoughts shall perish. [5] Blessed is he who hath the God of Jacob for his helper, whose hope is in the Lord his God

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 1, 2013 by BarbaraTherese

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

i thought the communal confession (if that is what your refering to barbara) was only for extreme circumstance like war and possibly christmas and easter. That may be why the vatican shut it down if it was being used regularily.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Why do we have to go when everyone else goes? Then people see that we go. I don't want to be seen. I just want God to hear my confession.

 

 

Are you ashamed? We are sinners,  it takes time to subdue the beast once you realise the beast exists. That's my thought any way. After one masters the mortal sins than i guess it's time to master the venials. A priest told me even some saint's mastered there venial sins before they died, not saying i am or ever will do as such but for me it gives me hope that there is time and i need not be ashamed, though the devil tries to remind me often that i am a useless sinner, but aye alleluia i can let this depress me or flip it on the devil and say " well that is why i need jesus." I think i will die happy if i'm rid of all mortal sins before i die, including pride, that is a big one in the world and so commonly excepted as ok. God gives each and every person ample grace and time to gain heaven and avoid hell. Hopefully i have encouraged you with this and not offended you. And again this is all my own thoughts and i am definately not in any authority except that of a laymen/bretheren, your brother in christ.

 

Onward christian souls.

Jesus iz Lord.

God is Good, God is Love.

 

St Paul. " persistance bears fruits of hope."