Serbia Rocked By Orthodox Sex Scandal

[Winchester]

No retreat. Unlike you I think out my position before I post it.

 

More mind reading.
 

[Apotheoun]

More mind reading.
 

There is no mind to read.

[Winchester]

There is no mind to read.

 

It's not my fault you didn't think your statement through. Just own it, and quit pretending. The only person you're fooling is yourself. I expect better of you than pretending you didn't say something.

[Apotheoun]

It's not my fault you didn't think your statement through. Just own it, and quit pretending. The only person you're fooling is yourself. I expect better of you than pretending you didn't say something.

Another vacuous comment. 

[Winchester]

Another vacuous comment. 

 

umad

[Apotheoun]

I'm quite unmoved emotionally by our conversation.

 

That said, is the scandal surrounding Bishop Basil primarily homosexual in nature? Yes. 

Is the sex abuse scandal that has impacted the Roman Catholic Church over the last few years primarily homosexual in nature? Yes.

[Winchester]

I'm quite unmoved emotionally by our conversation.

 

That said, is the scandal surrounding Bishop Basil primarily homosexual in nature? Yes. 

Is the sex abuse scandal that has impacted the Roman Catholic Church over the last few years primarily homosexual in nature? Yes.

 

Not as worried about scandal as I am about the rapey parts.

 

But maybe that's just me. Oh, if only the Bishop had been a straight rapist!

[Apotheoun]

I see, because I have focused on the disordered sexual condition that brought on the problem in the first place, you think that I am a supporter of rape. That's logical in Biizarro World.

 

In the case of Bishop Basil, unlike the scandal that took placed in the U.S. Church rape was not always a part of what happened, but I am sure you know all about that, because you've read the articles and seen the other information made public so far in connection with the scandal. 

 

Rape is a terrible crime and the boys that Bishop Basil abused would not have been put in such a terrible position of the Serbian Church had done a better job in vetting out its ordinands to try and prevent the ordination of men suffering from same-sex attraction.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Apotheoun

[Winchester]

I see, because I have focused on the disordered sexual condition that brought on the problem in the first place, you think that I am a supporter of rape. That's logical in Biizarro World.

 

In the case of Bishop Basil, unlike the scandal that took placed in the U.S. Church rape was not always a part of what happened, but I am sure you know all about that, because you've read the articles and seen the other information made public so far in connection with the scandal. 

 

Rape is a terrible crime and the boys that Bishop Basil abused would not have been put in such a terrible position of the Serbian Church had done a better job in vetting out its ordinands to try and prevent the ordination of men suffering from same-sex attraction.

 

You have a real problem focusing on what people say when they don't have the same fixations.

 

Now you're questioning the judgment of the people who ordained him. They should just hand the reins of the Church over to you. I'm sure you'd suss out all the bad guys.

 

I suppose not having one's mind distracted by getting laid sharpens the senses needed to uncover sexual deviations.

[Apotheoun]

You have a real problem focusing on what people say when they don't have the same fixations.

 

Now you're questioning the judgment of the people who ordained him. They should just hand the reins of the Church over to you. I'm sure you'd suss out all the bad guys.

 

I suppose not having one's mind distracted by getting laid sharpens the senses needed to uncover sexual deviations.

It is pretty evident from his behavior that he shouldn't have been ordained. One does not need to be a rocket scientist to know that.

 

Should the Church be careful in ordaining priests? Yes. That's true in all cases. If the man has a proper sexual orientation the Church should still make sure he is mature and has a properly formed conscience. Again, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to know that the Church should be properly vetting the men who approach it for ordination. This was common knowledge in the Roman Church back in the 50s and 60s. 

 

A bishop in the Orthodox tradition has to live in close proximity with other men for many years before being ordained, because the vast majority of bishops in Orthodox Churches are monks. Should the members of the monastic community know something about the monk before his ordination as a bishop? You would think so. Now, can a man hide things about himself? Sure, but that doesn't mean that the Church authorities should not still use all due diligence when ordaining priests and bishops.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Apotheoun

[Winchester]

Would you have ordained Augustine?

[CatholicsAreKewl]

What I am saying, which I know you do not like, is that the perverted disorder that this bishop suffers from, and that should have prevented his ordination in the first place (if it was known), added to the predatory nature of his actions. The disorders are connected. Now, can a man with a normal sexual orientation also be a predator? Sure. But the present case is not one that concerns a man with a normal sexual ordering, and to so  say that his homosexual affliction played no part in his sexual perversion is utter foolishness.

If I am understanding correctly, it seems that you are arguing that homosexuality and the molestation of little boys is correlated. That is similar to arguing that heterosexuality is related to sexual acts with little girls. Even if the people who were raped were old enough to not be considered "children", there is an obvious abuse of power and authority. The problem comes down to something much more twisted than homosexuality.

Also, I don't know how fair it would be to only prohibit gays from joining the priesthood. If we did that, it would make sense to also forbid those with heightened sex drives from joining as well (Priests can also have sex with women, afterall). Also, it seems a bit uncanny to be able to weed out pedophiles with a "gay test". If a person is willing to molest children consistently, he would be more than willing to lie about his problems.  
 

Edited April 30, 2013 by CatholicsAreKewl

[Apotheoun]

Would you have ordained Augustine?

That question is complicated, but not by his moral failings, which occurred prior to his conversion to Christianity. Those sins were forgiven and he showed true moral amendment in his personal life after his conversion, becoming very ascetic. Would I have ordained St. Augustine? Probably not, but again, not for the reasons you most likely think. I wouldn't have ordained him because I think his theological views on many issues are erroneous and even - when it comes to predestination and irresistible grace - heretical.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Apotheoun

[Apotheoun]

If I am understanding correctly, it seems that you are arguing that homosexuality and the molestation of little boys is correlated. That is similar to arguing that heterosexuality is related to sexual acts with little girls. Even if the people who were raped were old enough to not be considered "children", there is an obvious abuse of power and authority. The problem comes down to something much more twisted than homosexuality.

Also, I don't know how fair it would be to only prohibit gays from joining the priesthood. If we did that, it would make sense to also forbid those with heightened sex drives from joining as well (Priests can also have sex with women, afterall). Also, it seems a bit uncanny to be able to weed out pedophiles with a "gay test". If a person is willing to molest children consistently, he would be more than willing to lie about his problems.  
 

I would say that there is a correlation between the two in the moral sphere. Does it follow that all men afflicted with homosexual desires will necessarily abuse boys? No. There may even be some men who suffer from this disordered condition who live a life of perfect continence. But for that they would need God's grace in order to strengthen their wills sufficiently to avoid the sin, especially in our hyper-sexualized (and homoerotic) culture.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Apotheoun

[Winchester]

That question is complicated, but not by his moral failings, which occurred prior to his conversion to Christianity. Those sins were forgiven and he showed true moral amendment in his personal life after his conversion, becoming very ascetic. Would I have ordained St. Augustine? Probably not, but again, not for the reasons you most likely think. I wouldn't have ordained him because I think his theological views on many issues are erroneous and even - when it comes to predestination and irresistible grace - heretical.

 

I really admire the bravery of that answer. And I think the reasons are legitimate.