Late-term Abortion

[ToJesusMyHeart]

"push out the pregnancy"

 

What the bleep? Are you stupid? you don't push out a pregnancy, you dimwit. You push out a baby, for crying out loud. 

 

*Edit: please note that the name-calling is to the abortion worker in the video, not any person on phatmass. please don't ban me like you banned a certain someone. kthanksbye. :)

Edited April 29, 2013 by ToJesusMyHeart

[PhuturePriest]

"push out the pregnancy"

 

What the bleep? Are you stupid? you don't push out a pregnancy, you dimwit. You push out a baby, for crying out loud. 

 

*Edit: please note that the name-calling is to the abortion worker in the video, not any person on phatmass. please don't ban me like you banned a certain someone. kthanksbye. :)

 

No, but see, if you call it a "pregnancy", you hide the fact it's an actual human person, so you don't feel as bad. Terminology may not change the facts, but it sure makes us feel better and helps us to forget the reality of everything.

[Spem in alium]

No, but see, if you call it a "pregnancy", you hide the fact it's an actual human person, so you don't feel as bad. Terminology may not change the facts, but it sure makes us feel better and helps us to forget the reality of everything.

Exactly. Which is probably also connected to the use of "it"/"the specimen" etc. rather than "the baby" as descriptors. I think at one point one of the women used "he" in reference to the baby, but for the most part they used very general and detached terminology.

[TheLordsSouljah]

...and it's politically incorrect to use the word 'kill' in a clinic....

[Papist]

Gosnell is certainly not alone.  "Flush it"  It does not get more depraved than that.  I guess the hypocritical oath is just a novelty to these people.

[Ice_nine]

you guys, it's ok. Fetuses/babies are not self-aware.

[4588686]

 

you guys, it's ok. Fetuses/babies are not self-aware.

That's true.

[Ice_nine]

so killing them is permissible. It's the next logical step really.

[4588686]

so killing them is permissible. It's the next logical step really.

 

Maybe.  At the earliest stages of development I think the answer is clearly yes.  Equating a fertilized egg's 'humanness' with the mother is just dumb.  As development occurs it becomes very murky   

[ToJesusMyHeart]

you guys, it's ok. Fetuses/babies are not self-aware.

Just like people who are in comas. So we should just kill them too. 

 

Not self aware = not human. Duh.

[PhuturePriest]

I once had someone tell me that it's not killing since they can't feel pain. I said "Okay, so if I kill a fish it's not really killing, since fish can't feel pain?" and he said "That's completely different. Fish can live by themselves. They don't rely on something else to sustain life for them." I was young, but I wish I had said "So killing people on life-support isn't killing, since they can't live without the life-support system, and therefore aren't truly alive?"

[jeffboom]

I once had someone tell me that it's not killing since they can't feel pain. I said "Okay, so if I kill a fish it's not really killing, since fish can't feel pain?" and he said "That's completely different. Fish can live by themselves. They don't rely on something else to sustain life for them." I was young, but I wish I had said "So killing people on life-support isn't killing, since they can't live without the life-support system, and therefore aren't truly alive?"

 

A third trimester baby can live by itself. And it can probably feel the pain. 

 

Life-support is a whole other issue. 

[ToJesusMyHeart]

Unborn babies feel pain at 13 weeks because that is when the pain receptors in the brain finish forming. 

[ToJesusMyHeart]

Just came across this information, which clarifies that pain can unquestionably be felt at 13.5 weeks, but pain can be felt in specific organs of the baby's body before that.

 

Surgeon Robert P. N. Shearin states that: "As early as eight to ten weeks after conception, and definitely by thirteen-and-a-half weeks, the unborn experiences organic pain…. First, the unborn child's mouth, at eight weeks, then her hands at ten weeks, then her face, arms, and legs at eleven weeks become sensitive to touch. By thirteen-and-a-half weeks, she responds to pain at all levels of her nervous system in an integrated response which cannot be termed a mere reflex. She can now experience pain."

 

By 8 weeks the neuro-anatomic structures are present. What is needed is (1) a sensory nerve to feel the pain and send a message to (2) the thalamus, a part of the base of the brain, and (3) motor nerves that send a message to that area. These are present at 8 weeks. The pain impulse goes to the thalamus. It sends a signal down the motor nerves to pull away from the hurt. Try sticking an infant with a pin and you know what happens. She opens her mouth to cry and also pulls away. Try sticking an 8 week old human fetus in the palm of his hand. He opens his mouth and pulls his hand away.

 

OK, that is activity that can be observed, but is there other evidence of pain? After all, the fetal baby can’t tell us he hurts.

Yes. Pain can be detected when nociceptors (pain receptors) discharge electrical impulses to the spinal cord and brain. These fire impulses outward, telling the muscles and body to react. These can be measured.

 

"Lip tactile response may be evoked by the end of the 7th week. At 11 weeks, the face and all parts of the upper and lower extremities are sensitive to touch. By 13 1/2 to 14 weeks, the entire body surface, except for the back and the top of the head, are sensitive to pain."

 

So it is even more alarming that beginning at the 8th week of development, an unborn baby that is aborted feels pain during the abortion. The baby feels both psychological and real physical, organic pain. Let that sink in. 

 

Source: Mountcastle, Medical Physiology, St. Louis: C.V. Mosby, pp. 391-427 & S. Reinis & J. Goldman, The Development of the Brain C. Thomas Pub., 1980

 

Of course, whether or not abortion is a painful experience to the unborn child being aborted, the child is left no less dead as a result. In talking about the question of fetal pain, we must remember that it ultimately has no bearing on the morality of abortion.

 

Abortion kills babies. Wait, it actually gets worse. Abortion painfully kills babies.

 

President Ronald Reagan stated in 1984 that during an abortion: "The fetus feels pain which is long and agonizing."

 

After President Ronald Reagan said this then it set off a furious reaction by pro-abortion advocates. They did not want to believe this, nor did they want the public to believe it. But twenty-six medical authorities, including two past presidents of the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, stepped forward with a letter documenting that the unborn does in fact feel pain during an abortion.

Their letter says in part: 

Mr. President, in drawing attention to the capability of the human fetus to feel pain, you stand on firmly established ground…. That the unborn, the prematurely born, and the new-born of the human species is a highly complex, sentient, functioning, individual organism is established scientific fact…. Over the last eighteen years, real time ultrasonography, fetoscopy, study of the fetal EKG [electrocardiogram] and the fetal EEG [electroencephalogram] have demonstrated the remarkable responsiveness of the human fetus to pain, touch, and sound.

And further, if, as pro-abortionists claim, the unborn cannot feel pain, why I ask you, if unborn babies can't feel pain then why are they given anesthesia during fetal surgery?

 

Many babies now undergo fetal surgery, including Sarah Marie Switzer, pictured below, whose extended arm at 24 weeks (abortion legal) gestation is captured in the picture to the left. These babies are routinely given anesthesia to prevent pain during the procedure.

 

24 week unborn baby during fetal surgery.

 

Because of the obvious fact that late-term abortions cause pain for preborn children, a California assemblyman introduced the Fetal Pain Prevention Act of 1998, which would have required that babies be sedated to reduce their suffering in third trimester abortions. (The Center for Disease Control indicates thirty-nine hundred of these are performed annually in California alone.)

Edited April 30, 2013 by ToJesusMyHeart

[Lilllabettt]

all human beings are equal.

but some human beings are more equal than other human beings.

for example, air breathers are more equal than non-air breathers, especially  non-air breathers with spinal defects or other undesirable qualities.

 

 

 

Edited April 30, 2013 by Lilllabettt