Papal Encyclicals, Infallible?

[dairygirl4u2c]

my understanding of an infallible statement by the pope is when... the pope, intentionally, teaches, the church, on faith and morals. 

 

when are papal encyclicals considered infallible? is it only when the pope makes it clear that he's teaching the church? are they presumed infallible unless otherwise stated? are they considered to be treated that way, not necessarily infalllible or not, but treated as if they are? (my guess is this is what most would say, the safest approach etc)

are there any insights on papal encyclicals and infallibility that i should know?

[dUSt]

They are infallible like the Bible is infallible--that is, when interpreted by the Church.

[Nihil Obstat]

They are infallible like the Bible is infallible--that is, when interpreted by the Church.

That is not exactly true. An encyclical has a rather high degree of authority, but certainly not on the level of Scripture or Tradition. Not in and of itself, at any rate.

[Anastasia13]

That is not exactly true. An encyclical has a rather high degree of authority, but certainly not on the level of Scripture or Tradition. Not in and of itself, at any rate.

 

Then how and why does it differ from Tradition as taught by the Church? If it teaches on faith or something, and it is from the Church, and the Church is infallible on faith, then how is the encyclical not infallible?

 

Wikipedia says, "For the modern Catholic Church a Papal encyclical, in the strictest sense, is a letter, usually treating some aspect of Catholic doctrine, sent by the Pope and addressed either to the Catholic bishops of a particular area or, more normally, to the bishops of the world; however, the form of the address can vary widely, and often designates a wider audience."  So if it is from the Pope and it is on Catholic doctrine...?

Edited April 29, 2013 by Light and Truth

[Nihil Obstat]

Then how and why does it differ from Tradition as taught by the Church? If it teaches on faith or something, and it is from the Church, and the Church is infallible on faith, then how is the encyclical not infallible?

 

Wikipedia says, "For the modern Catholic Church a Papal encyclical, in the strictest sense, is a letter, usually treating some aspect of Catholic doctrine, sent by the Pope and addressed either to the Catholic bishops of a particular area or, more normally, to the bishops of the world; however, the form of the address can vary widely, and often designates a wider audience."  So if it is from the Pope and it is on Catholic doctrine...?

Simply being from the pope and on a doctrinal subject is not enough, on its own, to guarantee infallibility.

An encyclical certainly can express Tradition, and be infallible by virtue of that fact. But an encyclical, taken just as itself, i.e. in isolation, does not constitute Tradition. But it is not to be taken lightly, of course. It is a relatively authoritative document, though not the highest possible level of authority.

 

A statement is infallible if it is universally taught by the Magisterium, if it comes from Scripture, if it is constantly held by the Church as Her Tradition, or if the pope specifically and intentionally invokes infallibility. An encyclical in and of itself is not any of these things, although obviously it can express these things, if they are present.

 

An encyclical could quote Scripture, and the Scripture is obviously infallible, but the encyclical itself ≠ Scripture. The encyclical could draw from Tradition, and Tradition is infallible, but the encyclical on its own ≠ Tradition. Etc..

 

 

(And now I am going to bed, for real this time. :P )

Edited April 29, 2013 by Nihil Obstat

[Anastasia13]

Simply being from the pope and on a doctrinal subject is not enough, on its own, to guarantee infallibility.

An encyclical certainly can express Tradition, and be infallible by virtue of that fact. But an encyclical, taken just as itself, i.e. in isolation, does not constitute Tradition. But it is not to be taken lightly, of course. It is a relatively authoritative document, though not the highest possible level of authority.

 

A statement is infallible if it is universally taught by the Magisterium, if it comes from Scripture, if it is constantly held by the Church as Her Tradition, or if the pope specifically and intentionally invokes infallibility. An encyclical in and of itself is not any of these things, although obviously it can express these things, if they are present.

 

An encyclical could quote Scripture, and the Scripture is obviously infallible, but the encyclical itself ≠ Scripture. The encyclical could draw from Tradition, and Tradition is infallible, but the encyclical on its own ≠ Tradition. Etc..

 

 

(And now I am going to bed, for real this time. :P )

 

Ok, here is where I think I am lost then. EWTN says, "By the Magisterium we mean the teaching office of the Church. It consists of the Pope and Bishops." Now an encyclical is from the Pope and deals with some sort of doctrine. How is this not a teaching of the Magisterium and thus infallible?

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

I didn't know holy scripture is infallible according to st paul. St paul states " no man can reveal the will of GOD perfectly but all scripture is usefull ." which gets me to think no man individually can but in the case of vatican councils probably. Like the truth as part of sacred tradition from a council(i don't know which one.) that there is real and perpetual presence of christ in the eucharist, the holy eucharist is infallibly jesus body and blood. I was also lead to believe there aren't many matters of faith and morals that get the stamp infallible. Hear is a few of them i have been led to believe are infallible and i have found no others, yet! 1. The primacy of the pope. 2. The magesterium of the church. 3. the true sacrifice of the holy mass. 4.the real and perpetual presence of Jesus in the holy eucharist. 5.The absolution of the confessional. 6.The immaculate conception 7. Mary's assumption mind,heart,body and soul into heaven.

 

If there are any other official matters of faith and morals that have been legaly made official by a pope let me know. ? Or perhaps some or all of what i have posted as being infallible matters of faith and morals are wrong. Please let me know if you know.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

I learnt what i would call a few very important doctrines but unsure if there infallible,they seem infallible to me,if they are someone let me and light and truth know, i honestly would like to know i'm not up so far with doctrine and sacred tradition. 1: Gods grace is absolutely nescessary for salvation 2: God wishes all men to be saved. 3: God, since he endows man with a free will,makes the efficacy of his saving will depend on man's co-operation with it. 

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Unsure if this is church doctrine but what about if i said " God gives each man according to his will enough grace to avoid hell and gain heaven." I think i heard something like that somewhere on my journeying.

[Nihil Obstat]

Ok, here is where I think I am lost then. EWTN says, "By the Magisterium we mean the teaching office of the Church. It consists of the Pope and Bishops." Now an encyclical is from the Pope and deals with some sort of doctrine. How is this not a teaching of the Magisterium and thus infallible?

It is definitely a part of the Magisterium. But I believe we specify "ordinary Magisterium", which is still not necessarily infallible.

[Anastasia13]

It is definitely a part of the Magisterium. But I believe we specify "ordinary Magisterium", which is still not necessarily infallible.

 

And ordinary would be like everything but faith and morals?

[Nihil Obstat]

And ordinary would be like everything but faith and morals?

 

More along the lines of the Magisterium expressed in an ordinary sense, as opposed to an extraordinary act of the Magisterium, which would be infallible.

The Magisterium really only has competency in the realm of faith and morals, which is why you would never ever ever see a Magisterial document saying something like "American Catholics should vote for Romney."

[dairygirl4u2c]

you got to be careful with the ordinary magisterium. cause ive seen even a pope refer to "infallible" teachings of the ordinary magisterium. i think it can be infallible, but not always. i think?

 

it makes sense to read an encyclical with teh definition in mind... is the pope intentionally teaching the church on faith and morals? and read each one in that vein.

 

one might be cynical of the definition used for encyclicals... which are authoritative and which not? is it like a rabbit hat where they only take which teachings they want basically? except, while it's ossible to be cynical in theory... in practice it's not like i see a whole lot of contradictions and such coming from any encylical, whether considered in fallible or not. 

[jim111]

All ex-cathdrea statements are infallible.

9. Therefore, faithfully adhering to the tradition received from the beginning of the Christian faith, to the glory of God our savior, for the exaltation of the Catholic religion and for the salvation of the Christian people, with the approval of the Sacred Council, we teach and define as a divinely revealed dogma that when the Roman Pontiff speaks EX CATHEDRA, that is, when, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church, he possesses, by the divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, that infallibility which the divine Redeemer willed his Church to enjoy in defining doctrine concerning faith or morals. Therefore, such definitions of the Roman Pontiff are of themselves, and not by the consent of the Church, irreformable.

First Vatican Council, Sess4, Ch4. Par9

 

He is also infallible in encyclicals when universally teaching on faith and morals. A collection of encyclicals, councils and dogmas of the church can be found in "Denzinger, The sources of Catholic Dogma" which is what the CCC sites to get its authority.    Online version

 

If you would like a detailed explanation of dogma, and level of authority for different doctrines, read the introduction to "Foundations of Catholic Dogma". free ebook version

Edited April 30, 2013 by jim111