Immigration Control.

[PadrePioOfPietrelcino]

Defend your children and wife which you absolutely know will mean they die or move somewhere safer?  Your really advocating someone do something that will for sure get his family slaughtered?  The drug cartels have all the power.  They kill politicians and law enforcement without a second thought.  Right now, a bunch of citizens standing up to them is going to do nothing.  Other than guarente their slaughter.  Sorry but you must not have a wife and children so you can not understand.  Cause I having a wife and children would never put them in a no win situation to be slaughtered, possibly raped and possibly be sold into the sex slave ring.  I would move my family to some place that is safer and gives them a chance at a life.

 

Please, please show me any immigrant who thinks being slaughtered in mexico by the cartels as an amazing resort?  Please show me anyone who would love to live in daily fear and see law enforcement heads on pikes in their country.  You know  to try and make your point you over exaggerate and come off as unintelligent.

 

I don't think just Mexicans should be allowed in this country.  Any person in another country that's life is in danger and family is in danger on a daily basis. 

 

Here is a question for you to think, how many people die waiting to be allowed in this country legally?  How many people have thier children die from numerous reasons while they wait to enter legally?  The church teaches that it is not a sin to steal if your family is starving and going to die.  To me, its the same thing when your family is going to be killed and you get away to a safer country. 

 

Is it right just because you and I were born 100 feet across from someone else that we should enjoy all the benifts while the other man is denied it all and has to live in poverty, fear and pain his whole life?  All becuase we were born 100 feet from each other?

You think the only way to understand familial love is to be a husband and a father? You don't think I have a family? You don't think I was willing to die for strangers when I'm putting myself at risk of bodily harm to save the life of some other guy's injured daughter in a war zone? You don't think I understand what people who are motivated can do? That's why our battles in Iraq have been so easy. Apparently a few people with household chemicals weren't making homemade bombs and fighting against a higher powered higher armed, better trained group in power. Have you been to Mexico AND Ethiopia? I have. I'm not trying to say everything is peachy good in Mexico, but there is a world larger than just our boarders. YES, we need to care about what's going on. YES, we need to be aware of how our policies affect what goes on elsewhere.

 

How many Sudanese and Somalians have died not being able to immigrate because we can raise immigration limits to account for the large number of people doing so illegally.

 

The problem is you seem to think that I equate sinful and illegal. Not necessarily, sure it isn't a sin to try your best to make the best life you can honestly and honorably for your family. But it CAN raise legal question which is what I'm trying to figure out.

[Norseman82]

I am advocating that prostitution be legal. I'm not endorsing the practice itself. 

 

Translation:  "Personally opposed, but..." 

 

Gee, where have I heard THAT one before?

[Nihil Obstat]

Translation:  "Personally opposed, but..." 

 

Gee, where have I heard THAT one before?

Thomas Aquinas, apparently.

[havok579257]

Thomas Aquinas, apparently.

 

Joe Biden also on abortion.

[Nihil Obstat]

Joe Biden also on abortion.

We were talking about prostitution, dude. Pretty different contexts.

And in any case, Aquinas said it first.

[jeffboom]

From immigration to drugs to prostitution. 

[Norseman82]

St. Thomas Aquinas argued that prostitution could be legal - tolerated - in order to avoid a greater evil.

I would suggest that perhaps you should do your research before so aggressively questioning someone's faith, simply because they disagree with your conclusions on a practical matter.

 

 

I answer that, Human government is derived from the Divine government, and should imitate it. Now although God is all-powerful and supremely good, nevertheless He allows certain evils to take place in theuniverse, which He might prevent, lest, without them, greater goods might be forfeited, or greater evilsensue. Accordingly in human government also, those who are in authority, rightly tolerate certain evils, lestcertain goods be lost, or certain greater evils be incurred: thus Augustine says (De Ordine ii, 4): "If you do away with harlots, the world will be convulsed with lust." Hence, though unbelievers sin in their rites, they may be tolerated, either on account of some good that ensues therefrom, or because of some evil avoided. Thus from the fact that the Jews observe their rites, which, of old, foreshadowed the truth of the faithwhich we hold, there follows this good--that our very enemies bear witness to our faith, and that our faithis represented in a figure, so to speak. For this reason they are tolerated in the observance of their rites.

On the other hand, the rites of other unbelievers, which are neither truthful nor profitable are by no means to be tolerated, except perchance in order to avoid an evil, e.g. the scandal or disturbance that might ensue, or some hindrance to the salvation of those who if they were unmolested might gradually beconverted to the faith. For this reason the Church, at times, has tolerated the rites even of heretics andpagans, when unbelievers were very numerous.

 

OK, now I'm confused.  Augustine and Aquinas believe in tolerating prostitution so that people will avoid lust?  But do not people turn to prostitution out of lust?  This makes no sense, unless they are afraid that the people who are consumed by lust will end up raping people left and right.  Even so, St. Paul states that "it is better to marry than to burn", not "it is better to bang a hooker than to burn".  Additionally, Augustine's and Aquinas' writing on this subject are not infallible teaching; however, CCC 2355 calls prostitution a "social scourge" and does not refer to good that may come of it.

[Nihil Obstat]

OK, now I'm confused.  Augustine and Aquinas believe in tolerating prostitution so that people will avoid lust?  But do not people turn to prostitution out of lust?  This makes no sense, unless they are afraid that the people who are consumed by lust will end up raping people left and right.  Even so, St. Paul states that "it is better to marry than to burn", not "it is better to bang a hooker than to burn".  Additionally, Augustine's and Aquinas' writing on this subject are not infallible teaching; however, CCC 2355 calls prostitution a "social scourge" and does not refer to good that may come of it.

As Aquinas said, "Hence, though unbelievers sin in their rites, they may be tolerated, either on account of some good that ensues therefrom, or because of some evil avoided."

 

Since he used prostitution as an example, this might also be amended to "though fornicators sin in their actions, they may be tolerated[...]"

It does not mean we approve of prostitution. It means that in some cases we may conclude that tolerating it is acceptable.

[Ice_nine]

Havok, a lot of people are trafficked AGAINST THEIR WILL into the sex trade. There is an argument that legalizing prostitution, would allow those who WANT to do it to do so legally, and thus limit the numbers of women and children who are coerced into sex work. I'm not saying that I believe or am convinced by that argument (after all if there are sickos who get off on abusing people through sex, and there unfortunately always will be). But the argument is even if you believe prostitution is evil in and of itself, as I do, that IN ADDITION to this evil there are extraneous evils (rape, abuse of all kinds, kidnapping, murder, mutilation) connected to the sex trade that wouldn't be there if prostitution were legal.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Ice_nine

[Winchester]

when the drug cartels are killing your neighbors and your on the never ending waiting list to get away from them what would you do?  Stay there to surely die or move your wife and children to some place safe to save their lives? 

 

Its easy as americans who live in this country which is safe compared to other countries sit on our high horses and say others are wrong for entering this country illegally when if they stayed where they were they and their family would most likely be dead. 

 

Its a lot easier for the rich man to condemn the poor man who stole from his garden so his family would not starve than to see his point of view.

 

Add a line about how our dumbassed drug policies created those cartels.

[Winchester]

Joe Biden also on abortion.

 

Not comparable. A short google search will illuminate you.

[ardillacid]

Yes, because giving people unlimited access to hideously dangerous substances is a really good idea. Really? Think about that. 

 

People are not to be trusted with their own health and lives under any circumstances. 

[Winchester]

People are not to be trusted with their own health and lives under any circumstances. 

 

And once we have the violators in a cage, we can prevent them from harming themselves.
 

[jeffboom]

And once we have the violators in a cage, we can prevent them from harming themselves.
 

 

Padded cages of course. 

[ardillacid]

And once we have the violators in a cage, we can prevent them from harming themselves.
 

 

We can sedate the wild ones with drugs!