CatholicsAreKewl Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 I would say the vast overwhelming majority of people who drink caffeine do it for the therapeutic effects which caffeine does have many therapeutic effects. If your a healthy person(ie not cancerous or sick from some other medical problem) what therapeutic effect are people trying to get from smoking marijuana? I would say the overwhelmingly vast majority of healthy people smoke marijuana to get high. catholicsarekewl, I am not a troll I have been here for a long time. I just do not hold a lot of the same views people on here do(unless it comes to church teachings because that is something we can all agree on). Stress relief, pain alleviation, and hunger stimulation, to name a few. And good, I'm glad we disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Stress relief, pain alleviation, and hunger stimulation, to name a few. And good, I'm glad we disagree. pain alleviation- again I am not talking about people who have medical problems. I am talking about a normal healthy person. I can't think your serious in saying marijuana is used for therapeutic effects of hunger stimulation? Well if your serious I would like to see where your getting your information and data from that not only is this a needed therapeutic effect for healthy people and that people actually use it for this sole reason. Stress relief is not a therapeutic reason for a healthy person to use marijuana. Cause trying to go down this road you can say any drug is a stress relief. Also marijuana does the exact opposite of stress relief in some people because it makes people paranoid. I know from first hand experience from what I saw in my fallen away days. So again, your really going to have to come up with better therapeutic reasons for a healthy person to use marijuana. A sick person who is in pain is a different story. Although a healthy person needs more legit reasons for it to be considered therapeutic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 I feel like your trying to twist the catechism to fit your own beliefs on wanting marijuana to not be a sin. I think the catechism is pretty straight forward about drug use. I work in the medical field and I run into people who do all sorts of street drugs. I have seen more people on illegal street drugs in a single year than most people will see in a lifetime. Its just simple really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicsAreKewl Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 (edited) pain alleviation- again I am not talking about people who have medical problems. I am talking about a normal healthy person. Everyone encounters pain at some point... I can't think your serious in saying marijuana is used for therapeutic effects of hunger stimulation? Well if your serious I would like to see where your getting your information and data from that not only is this a needed therapeutic effect for healthy people and that people actually use it for this sole reason. <--- Havok THC is known to induce hunger. I'm not going to find a study for this... but you can. Here's the wikipedia entry if you're too lazy:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrahydrocannabinol Stress relief is not a therapeutic reason for a healthy person to use marijuana. Cause trying to go down this road you can say any drug is a stress relief. Also marijuana does the exact opposite of stress relief in some people because it makes people paranoid. I know from first hand experience from what I saw in my fallen away days. Stress can have serious effects on mental health and productivity. I know marijuana causes paranoia but stimulants can do this too. Why would you consider the use of caffeine therapeutic? So again, your really going to have to come up with better therapeutic reasons for a healthy person to use marijuana. A sick person who is in pain is a different story. Although a healthy person needs more legit reasons for it to be considered therapeutic. I really don't see how this argument can't apply for caffeine... Edited May 20, 2013 by CatholicsAreKewl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicsAreKewl Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 (edited) I feel like your trying to twist the catechism to fit your own beliefs on wanting marijuana to not be a sin. I think the catechism is pretty straight forward about drug use. I work in the medical field and I run into people who do all sorts of street drugs. I have seen more people on illegal street drugs in a single year than most people will see in a lifetime. Its just simple really. That's fascinating. What line of work do you do in the medical field? The Catechism is not straightforward. I am happy to be proven wrong. Can you prove to me that the Catechism specifically means marijuana? "Mind altering" is vague. I stand behind my initial argument that caffeine can easily be prohibited if we look at it in that way. Edited May 20, 2013 by CatholicsAreKewl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 That's fascinating. What line of work do you do in the medical field? The Catechism is not straightforward. I am happy to be proven wrong. Can you prove to me that the Catechism specifically means marijuana? "Mind altering" is vague. I stand behind my initial argument that caffeine can easily be prohibited if we look at it in that way. I am a paramedic in a major metropolitan city. Are you against chocolate also because that is a stimulant? Also all teas? Even a little marijuana produces mind altering effects. The same can not be said for a little caffeine. Excess caffeine yes but not for instance let's say 2 cups of a coffee a day. Although 1 joint will produce mind altering effects. Yes if you choose to look at it that way then I can see how you could say caffeine can be mind altering also. Although the same can be said for chocolate, tea and any number of other foods. I think we can look back in church history and see the churches stance on marijuana and caffeine. I don't know of a time the Vatican approved of marijuana. There was a time it forbid coffee(don't know if they ever forbid caffeine since its in chocolate and all tea's) although it approves of it and again don't know if its ever forbid caffeine. To me the catechism does not change throughout time, its unchanging. So just because marijuana is the new hip cool thing to do in society does not mean the church will now accept it as ok to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 They should just make it legal everywhere and it will blow over and people will giggle at a time when we were so silly that we were afraid of marijuana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicsAreKewl Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 (edited) I am a paramedic in a major metropolitan city. Are you against chocolate also because that is a stimulant? Also all teas? Even a little marijuana produces mind altering effects. The same can not be said for a little caffeine. Excess caffeine yes but not for instance let's say 2 cups of a coffee a day. Although 1 joint will produce mind altering effects. You are twisting my arguments without answering my question. Even a small amount of caffeine produces a "mind-altering" effect. Yes if you choose to look at it that way then I can see how you could say caffeine can be mind altering also. Although the same can be said for chocolate, tea and any number of other foods. <---- Havok Exactly my point. I think we can look back in church history and see the churches stance on marijuana and caffeine. I don't know of a time the Vatican approved of marijuana. Does the Vatican need to sanction it? The Vatican is not composed of scientists. Our understanding of drugs has changed over the last 2000 years. There was a time it forbid coffee(don't know if they ever forbid caffeine since its in chocolate and all tea's) although it approves of it and again don't know if its ever forbid caffeine. To me the catechism does not change throughout time, its unchanging. So just because marijuana is the new hip cool thing to do in society does not mean the church will now accept it as ok to do. The fact that it is unchanging does not mean that the section you keep referring to is not vague. Your claim that I'm arguing my position because I think marijuana is hip is as silly as me claiming you are arguing against marijuana because of a traditional/ignorant view of it. I personally do not enjoy smoking Marijuana. Edited May 20, 2013 by CatholicsAreKewl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 You are twisting my arguments without answering my question. Even a small amount of caffeine produces a "mind-altering" effect. Yes if you choose to look at it that way then I can see how you could say caffeine can be mind altering also. Although the same can be said for chocolate, tea and any number of other foods. <---- Havok Exactly my point. Does the Vatican need to sanction it? The Vatican is not composed of scientists. Our understanding of drugs has changed over the last 2000 years. The fact that it is unchanging does not mean that the section you keep referring to is not vague. Your claim that I'm arguing my position because I think marijuana is hip is as silly as me claiming you are arguing against marijuana because of a traditional/ignorant view of it. I personally do not enjoy smoking Marijuana. No, a small amount of caffeine does not cause mind altering effects. What are you classifying as mind altering? Increased alertness? Actually the Vatican has many scientist there. It is one of the foremost scientific research places in the world today. So are you honestly opposed to caffeine or are you just arguing for argument sake? Do you avoid all caffeine, tea and chocolate? I don't understand now why your arguing this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 (edited) I am a paramedic in a major metropolitan city. Transfer medic, or EMS? Edited May 21, 2013 by Winchester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Transfer medic, or EMS? Ems I work for a fire department Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Ems I work for a fire department Much better route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 (edited) Smoking a little bit of marijuana is the same as drinking a little bit of alcohol...and a big lol if you don't think alcohol is mind altering...Both alcohol and marijuana can be used in moderation...to say otherwise isn't being sincere... Edited May 21, 2013 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 its not mind altering. Cocaine is mind altering. Marijuana is mind altering. PCP is mind altering. No way, no how does caffeine even compare in the slightest to hardcore illegal drugs. I have 3 chemical classes for the worlds flora. Class A- food and water Class B-Tea,coffee, nicotine etc.Class C: Opium,Marijuana, Valium etc. This is a very vague table but class C is easy to fall into the area of being a glutton, not because there addictive but because they are very strong, class A is harder to fall into the glutton area because there not as strong. All Christians(all people really,) should avoid class C unless it is a medical emergency, there potency is very strong. Alcohol is either the strongest of the class B or the least side of class C. I rekon it reflects the holy trinity the 3 classes, and if somone did a study everything created on planet earth for our ingestion would fall into one of these three classes, A being weak,B being moderate, and C being strong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Haha alcohol is way worse then marijauna its not even close...and I don't even smoke just being honest...alcohol has destroyed so many lives... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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