Tolerance

[Guest Raz]

Just to reinforce this, a man who covered up child molestations for decades, which is known public knowledge, helped elect the head of our Church, which is also known public knowledge.

 

If the issue at hand really is with authority figures being required to live up to a moral code, what do we think about this? This of course being the highest level of authority in the entire Church. Certainly higher than a gym teacher.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Raz

[PadrePioOfPietrelcino]

How exactly do you remove the faculties of a Bishop when there is no Pope let alone a Cardinal Bishop? I am not defending nor condoning the actions of every cleric in the hierarchy of the Church, that is not my job. However, I will stand by my Church as the Bride of Christ in which he promised the Holy Spirit to guide and protect. If you think the Catholic Church is the only world institution which has had members make mistakes I'm sorry for your optimism in that case. If you believe ANY institution HASN"T and DOESN'T have people who cause scandal in their name you are also mistaken. Again, not as a defense of those who have done bad, or failed to do good, but the Scandals of the Protestant world if critically looked at really does make the Catholic Church look like small time school children.  

 

So 1) We can't remove a Cardinal Bishop's faculties...not within our power...The pope could have done something before resigning, why he didn't I don't know and I will trust God that he still guides his Church. 

2) We CAN influence who our teachers are, and we CAN support our Bishops and other leaders when the DO make decisions that are in line with the public ministry of the Church.

3) The failure to act on one person's part does not negate the responsibility or correctness of an action on another person's part.

4) If the knowledge was not had the teacher was homosexual then obviously that can not have a very strong influence on anything as a teacher. HOWEVER the teacher released the information publically. IT now does become public knowledge and impacts how those lessons about the faith or life ARE interpreted, I can hear the arguments in 15 years already..."You can't tell me the Church really teaches homosexual conduct is sinful...My grade school teacher was a practicing lesbian and it was a VERY Catholic school."

[PadrePioOfPietrelcino]

How exactly do you remove the faculties of a Bishop when there is no Pope let alone a Cardinal Bishop? I am not defending nor condoning the actions of every cleric in the hierarchy of the Church, that is not my job. However, I will stand by my Church as the Bride of Christ in which he promised the Holy Spirit to guide and protect. If you think the Catholic Church is the only world institution which has had members make mistakes I'm sorry for your optimism in that case. If you believe ANY institution HASN"T and DOESN'T have people who cause scandal in their name you are also mistaken. Again, not as a defense of those who have done bad, or failed to do good, but the Scandals of the Protestant world if critically looked at really does make the Catholic Church look like small time school children.  

 

So 1) We can't remove a Cardinal Bishop's faculties...not within our power...The pope could have done something before resigning, why he didn't I don't know and I will trust God that he still guides his Church. 

2) We CAN influence who our teachers are, and we CAN support our Bishops and other leaders when the DO make decisions that are in line with the public ministry of the Church.

3) The failure to act on one person's part does not negate the responsibility or correctness of an action on another person's part.

4) If the knowledge was not had the teacher was homosexual then obviously that can not have a very strong influence on anything as a teacher. HOWEVER the teacher released the information publically. IT now does become public knowledge and impacts how those lessons about the faith or life ARE interpreted, I can hear the arguments in 15 years already..."You can't tell me the Church really teaches homosexual conduct is sinful...My grade school teacher was a practicing lesbian and it was a VERY Catholic school."

[Socrates]

How about a diocese that encourages moral guidance in the form of tolerance, forgiveness and understanding? Homosexuals exist. They always have, and always will. This diocese has taught the students of this school and people around the world that homosexuals deserve unfair treatment based on their sexual orientation. Is that really the most christian lesson they could have decided to teach?

 

Tolerance, forgiveness, and understanding does not mean that every form of behavior needs to be accepted, or that every person has a right to be employed at that school.  Homosexual cohabitation is an ongoing lifestyle contrary to Catholic moral teaching, and, as was pointed out by others, it was probably part of the teacher's contract with the school that she live a life in accord with Catholic moral principles.

 

I've already cited an official Church document written by Card. Ratzinger as head of the Congregation for the Defense of the Faith which explicitly stated that it is not unjust discrimination to not hire teachers and coaches on the basis of homosexuality, so don't try to lecture us here on Catholic/Christian teaching.

I think it safe to say that our previous Pope understands Catholic moral teaching better than you do.

 

Considering this incident showcases intolerance towards a person and not a principle, I'm going to have to disagree with you.

 

It's not intolerance towards a person, but following the principle that certain behaviors or lifestyles are incompatible with employment at a Catholic school.  It is the chosen homosexual lifestyle (which is distinct from unchosen inclinations or attractions) that is not tolerated.

 

C is called bigotry because by definition, it is.

 

Bigotry is the state of mind of a bigot: someone who, as a result of their prejudices, treats other people with hatred, contempt, and intolerance on the basis of a person's race, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity,national origin, religion, language, socioeconomic status, or other status.

 

Terminating a person's employment is not in itself an act of hatred, contempt, or intolerance, difficult as the experience may be.  By living with a homosexual partner, the teacher was likely breaking the terms of the employment contract.

 

You can call it whatever you like, but this Catholic school was acting perfectly within its rights here.

 

To continue an example I used earlier, a hard-core Muslim school would not be committing an act of bigotry if it said I could not teach there while acting against the teachings of Islam.  I would be better off seeking employment elsewhere, just as this gym teacher should if she does not wish to live according to Catholic moral teaching.  Plenty of other schools would be happy to have her.

 

Would you consider it wrong, if, rather than a Catholic school firing a lesbian teacher, it was a liberal private school devoted to principles of "sexual tolerance and diversity" firing a teacher after it was discovered that he was known as the author of an anti-gay blog or website?

[Socrates]

 

As far as this thread, I don't think we should be so quick as to condemn the diocese.  Do we really know every minute detail of what went down?  We can't know it by reading only one side of the story.  And I find it sad to speculate in such ways as to paint the diocese as the big bad wolf...

 

As the op's source is some "LGBT" (or whatever the current alphabet soup is) activist page, I'm rather dubious that we're getting unbiased reporting of the whole story here.

 

It seems that ever-"tolerant" "non-judgmental" liberals are extremely intolerant and quick to judge in such cases.

 

 

I was thinking EXACTLY this. How many teachers in that school support same-sex marriage? use and or support contraception? engage in or are okay with premarital sex? support abortion?? If you fire one teacher for (presumably) living a sinful lifestyle, you might as well fire all the teachers who do the same.

 

 

Actually, at the Catholic college I went to (Christendom), which had a very strong dedication to the principle of incorporating the Faith into all aspects of life, anyone of the positions or behaviors you listed would be grounds for termination if publicly engaged in by a faculty member, as would living with a homosexual "partner."

 

While it might shock some here, there still are some schools and institutions that take their Catholic identity and moral teaching seriously.

[MissScripture]

By firing her they are removing her professional interaction with her students, which had been a part of her life for almost 20 years. Students have rallied on her side and have continued to see her, but she will miss out on meeting new students coming into the school as time goes on, and mroe importantly, those new students will miss out on a great teacher with 19+ years of experience, it's a loss for all parties involved.

Welcome to reality. Sin has consequences, and affects more than just the person who committed the sin.

[ploomf]

This whole situation makes me sad. It sucks for the teacher and for the school. The teacher is now dealing with losing her mother and her job and the school is going to make someone angry no matter what they do. This was really a no win situation for everyone.

[Roamin Catholic]

 those new students will miss out on a great teacher with 19+ years of experience, it's a loss for all parties involved. 

 

FYI, 19 years does not make a great teacher...There have been many a teacher that just float through their job putting in no real effort and collecting a paycheck. 

[Apotheoun]

Nothing good will come from Catholics tolerating evil in such a way that it becomes common place.

 

As I see it this school did the only thing it could do as a Catholic institution. After all, the Church must always promote the moral norm, and that is even more the case when large segments of society no longer honor God through the practice of virtue.

[Winchester]

Does anyone have a picture of the teacher?

[Chestertonian]

 

[Roamin Catholic]

Looks like a gym teacher alright. 

[4588686]

Does anyone have a picture of the teacher?

 

 

You're going to be disappointed.   

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Unfortunately it seems that the diocese of Colbumus Ohio has forgotten this very important lesson. They recently fired a physical education teacher who had been working at a catholic school for 19 years when they discovered that she was gay. The teacher's mother passed away in February and the obituary mentioned the teacher's partner, a woman's name. She was not teaching her students anything she shouldn't. She was fired for one reason, she was gay.

 

If this isn't intolerance, I don't know what is. In my opinion, "You can't have this job because you're gay" is not a message that should be associated with the teachings of Christ.

 

Check out the story here.

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/skarlan/high-school-fires-teacher-after-her-partners-name-appeared-i

 

 

I think catholic schools should be allowed to employ only catholics because the school is a catholic school, but in that i think also there a some whatever the number catholics that practice homosexuality,  many more seem to practice pride which is as much a sin as lust, a mortal sin to be precise. If the teacher is aware that homosexuality is a sin than fine, but also it is her business as to whether she recognises it or not. If she identifies as being a practising christian member of the holy roman catholic church than she should be allowed to stay. As long as she isn't teaching the children that it is ok to be homosexual in the manner of it not being sinful.

 

 

O.T. "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of GOD."

[CatholicsAreKewl]

It is not hard to argue that at all, and it would not make the immorality of theft moral even if there was a genetic predisposition to someone stealing things. 

Really? From my understanding, The cause of Kleptomania is disputed. I don't know if people are necessarily born Kleptomaniacs. I think they might be predisposed to become Kleptomaniacs. That would still be at a different level than having your sexual preferences decided in the womb.  I'm more than happy to be corrected if I'm wrong. 

The reason why I brought up psychopathy specifically is because there's not really a "cure" for it. We also can't expect such a person to just pray away their condition. Free-will is tainted when the brain of the person in question is wired  much differently than the rest of the population.  I was wondering how you would apply the logic that sin caused this disorder and what you felt about it. 

 

 

 

 

But back to the main point, we are talking about a Catholic school, and a Catholic school should be just that "Catholic," and if a person is living in contradiction to the moral law the school should - in order to avoid public scandal - let the person go.

 

I would have to disagree with you. Catholic communities I've come in contact with care way too much about public scandal. The public has never liked Catholics. It confuses me when anything is decided based on this at all. I can understand that the school could require everyone to follow Catholic moral law in order to be good role models for the students. However, that would mean that all of the teachers from my former school, including at least half of the priests, would have to be fired. 

Edited April 26, 2013 by CatholicsAreKewl