Tolerance

[Guest Raz]

"There is no subject on which the average mind is so much confused as the subject of tolerance. Tolerance applies only to persons, but never to principles. Intolerance applies only to principles, but never to persons." -Archbishop Fulton Sheen

 

Unfortunately it seems that the diocese of Colbumus Ohio has forgotten this very important lesson. They recently fired a physical education teacher who had been working at a catholic school for 19 years when they discovered that she was gay. The teacher's mother passed away in February and the obituary mentioned the teacher's partner, a woman's name. She was not teaching her students anything she shouldn't. She was fired for one reason, she was gay.

 

If this isn't intolerance, I don't know what is. In my opinion, "You can't have this job because you're gay" is not a message that should be associated with the teachings of Christ.

 

Check out the story here.

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/skarlan/high-school-fires-teacher-after-her-partners-name-appeared-i

 

 

 

 

[MissyP89]

In before the flamewar! :yay:

 

I spent a lot of time brooding and stewing over this last night. I'm probably going to sound a bit like a bleeding heart, but it cut deep.

 

She wasn't fired for being gay. That is no sin. She was fired for her actions.

 

Basically, they're a religious institution and have the right to set parameters for what they will and won't tolerate from their employees. If I worked at a Muslim school and refused to cover my head, they could fire me if they wanted to ... they're trying to set an example for the students and my choices wouldn't reinforce that.

 

But I grieve for Carla and Julie. I wish there were another way, an easier way, to uphold our morals.

 

I wonder if they would also fire cohabitating straight employees or those caught with porn. Whatever the circumstances, the policy should be across the board. 

 

So many people have seen this story and have been appalled. It only serves to push souls farther away from God and from the Church. I certainly don't imagine this went over well with Carla Hale.

 

I can only hope that the school offered her severance and support as she tries to find new work. And I can only hope that someday, there will be a better way to do this that won't cause so much hurt.

Edited April 24, 2013 by MissyP89

[4588686]

In before the flamewar! :yay:

 

I spent a lot of time brooding and stewing over this last night. I'm probably going to sound a bit like a bleeding heart, but it cut deep.

 

She wasn't fired for being gay. That is no sin. She was fired for her actions.

 

Basically, they're a religious institution and have the right to set parameters for what they will and won't tolerate from their employees. If I worked at a Muslim school and refused to cover my head, they could fire me if they wanted to ... they're trying to set an example for the students and my choices wouldn't reinforce that.

 

But I grieve for Carla and Julie. I wish there were another way, an easier way, to uphold our morals.

 

I wonder if they would also fire cohabitating straight employees or those caught with porn. Whatever the circumstances, the policy should be across the board. 

 

So many people have seen this story and have been appalled. It only serves to push souls farther away from God and from the Church. I certainly don't imagine this went over well with Carla Hale.

 

I can only hope that the school offered her severance and support as she tries to find new work. And I can only hope that someday, there will be a better way to do this that won't cause so much hurt.

 

 

Almost all of their male employees watch porn, I'm willing to bet.  I don't see any justification for this.  She didn't bring her partner to work.  But it certainly was classy to use information which slipped out with her mother's death to fire her.  Nothing like mourning a parent's death while you sit home unemployed.  

 

This is why the Church is dying in every country or region where tolerance and respect for differences is the norm.  Good riddance.  

[Guest Raz]

In before the flamewar! :yay:

 

I spent a lot of time brooding and stewing over this last night. I'm probably going to sound a bit like a bleeding heart, but it cut deep.

 

She wasn't fired for being gay. That is no sin. She was fired for her actions.

 

The action she was fired for was being gay. So, this is incorrect.

 

Basically, they're a religious institution and have the right to set parameters for what they will and won't tolerate from their employees. If I worked at a Muslim school and refused to cover my head, they could fire me if they wanted to ... they're trying to set an example for the students and my choices wouldn't reinforce that.

 

Covering your head is a choice, being gay is not. This is a very poor argument. The diocese was given an opportunity to show the nation and the world that it does not discriminate against homosexuals. Instead, they proved the opposite.

 

But I grieve for Carla and Julie. I wish there were another way, an easier way, to uphold our morals.

 

There is another way. It's called tolerance, a serious case of practicing what you preach.

 

I wonder if they would also fire cohabitating straight employees or those caught with porn. Whatever the circumstances, the policy should be across the board. 

 

I agree that everything should be across the board but I don't think anyone should be fired for any of these reasons. I find it interesting that priests who were known to molest young boys (a double whammy of homosexuality and child abuse) were not fired by their diocese (in fact, they were protected), but this teacher was fired simply for being gay.

 

So many people have seen this story and have been appalled. It only serves to push souls farther away from God and from the Church. I certainly don't imagine this went over well with Carla Hale.

 

This is exactly right. These intolerant actions are driving people away from the church.

 

I can only hope that the school offered her severance and support as she tries to find new work. And I can only hope that someday, there will be a better way to do this that won't cause so much hurt.

 

I hope they apologize and give her job back. There already is a better way to deal with this that doesn't cause so much hurt. Tolerance and love.

 

[arfink]

Um, clarification here. If being gay = having a sexual attraction to someone of the same sex, then yes, it's not an action.

 

If being gay = living with and having sex with someone of the same sex, then yes, it's an action, a very public one at that, which says you do not respect the teachings of the Church.

[Guest Raz]

Almost all of their male employees watch porn, I'm willing to bet.  I don't see any justification for this.  She didn't bring her partner to work.  But it certainly was classy to use information which slipped out with her mother's death to fire her.  Nothing like mourning a parent's death while you sit home unemployed.  

 

Well, I agree with this first part.

 

This is why the Church is dying in every country or region where tolerance and respect for differences is the norm.  Good riddance. 

 

It is true that this a big part of what's preventing people from joining the church, and driving some away from it, but the Church is not dying. Just look at the growing numbers! I would never say "good riddance" to something as absolutely necessary as the Catholic Church.

 

[Winchester]

Almost all of their male employees watch porn, I'm willing to bet.  I don't see any justification for this.  She didn't bring her partner to work.  But it certainly was classy to use information which slipped out with her mother's death to fire her.  Nothing like mourning a parent's death while you sit home unemployed.  

 

This is why the Church is dying in every country or region where tolerance and respect for differences is the norm.  Good riddance.  

 

It must be burgeoning in the West, then.

[Lilllabettt]

Dear Hassan,

 

Gay people are not dogs in heat. They are full-fledged, dignified human beings, perfectly capable of conscious and deliberate self-direction. They, like people of all sexual orientations, freely  choose those they do and do not sleep with.

 

Gay sex/straight sex is a choice. There is one type of sexual activity that is not a free choice and that is called "rape."

[MissyP89]

Perhaps the headcovering is a sloppy argument, I'll give you that. Let's be a little more general: why would she apply to a position at a Catholic school that expects certain things from her, knowing full well that she can't or won't follow them?

 

It smells of elderberries royally. It's awful that it happened. But it also shouldn't be a surprise to her. 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2013 by MissyP89

[Guest Raz]

Um, clarification here. If being gay = having a sexual attraction to someone of the same sex, then yes, it's not an action.

 

If being gay = living with and having sex with someone of the same sex, then yes, it's an action, a very public one at that, which says you do not respect the teachings of the Church.

 

The Church also teaches to love thy neighbor as thyself. To treat others with respect, and tolerance. If they wanted to fire her homosexuality, Id' be fine with that. Unfortunately that's impossible. I refer you to the quote I started  the article with. The diocese had a choice, they could uphold the teaching that Jesus told us was the most important of all, or make a stand against homosexuality by directly affecting the livelihood of this woman. They chose the latter, and I am dissappointed.

 

Edited April 24, 2013 by Raz

[4588686]

Dear Hassan,

 

Gay people are not dogs in heat. They are full-fledged, dignified human beings, perfectly capable of conscious and deliberate self-direction. They, like people of all sexual orientations, freely  choose those they do and do not sleep with.

 

Gay sex/straight sex is a choice. There is one type of sexual activity that is not a free choice and that is called "rape."

 

 

That's right.  She could have chosen never experience sex or romantic love.  But she did and she apparently did so discreetly.  Until her decision to have a relationship was briefly mentioned in her mother's obituary.  And now, thanks to some awful parent and this awful school, her mom's dead and she gets to think about that while she's unemployed.  The school had a right to fire her.  And I have a right to point out how devoid of even a basic shred of human decency that decision was and how happy I am that such indecent institution is increasingly being viewed with disdain by polite society.  

[Guest Raz]

Perhaps the headcovering is a sloppy argument, I'll give you that. Let's be a little more general: why would she apply to a position at a Catholic school that expects certain things from her, knowing full well that she can't or won't follow them?

 

It smells of elderberries royally. It's awful that it happened. But it also shouldn't be a surprise to her. 

 

This line of thinking would mean that any teacher who sinned in any way shape or form could be justly fired. We are not called to punish all sinners. We are called to forgive them if at all possible. If you can't find it in your heart to forgive a sinner, then that's between you and the big guy.

[4588686]

Perhaps the headcovering is a sloppy argument, I'll give you that. Let's be a little more general: why would she apply to a position at a Catholic school that expects certain things from her, knowing full well that she can't or won't follow them?

 

It smells of elderberries royally. It's awful that it happened. But it also shouldn't be a surprise to her. 

 

 

The same reason nearly every male teacher at that school watches porn.  

[Guest Raz]

I think it's an unfair leap to assume that every male watches porn. I'm a male and I don't.

 

The underlying point is true though, we all sin in some way some times, but it shouldn't cost us our jobs (well, within reason haha. If you come into work and kill a few people then yeah, I think a firing is in order).

 

Edited April 24, 2013 by Raz

[Papist]

Unfortunately it seems that the diocese of Colbumus Ohio has forgotten this very important lesson. They recently fired a physical education teacher who had been working at a catholic school for 19 years when they discovered that she was gay. The teacher's mother passed away in February and the obituary mentioned the teacher's partner, a woman's name. She was not teaching her students anything she shouldn't. She was fired for one reason, she was gay.

 

If this isn't intolerance, I don't know what is. In my opinion, "You can't have this job because you're gay" is not a message that should be associated with the teachings of Christ.

 

Check out the story here.

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/skarlan/high-school-fires-teacher-after-her-partners-name-appeared-i

 

We all teach by example.  A person that identifies herself as gay and lives it out gives a clear message to the children under her authority.