For Those With Illness/problems

[ithinkjesusiscool]

What should people do who have somatic or psychological problems/illness? Can they really become nuns/monks, priest (or even marry, ie. raising kids)?

 

 

[Spem in alium]

This relates to me personally. I am feeling more called to religious life as of late, but as someone with a mild though visible physical condition and past psychological problems I do wonder what effect my issues will have on how my calling is received.

 

I think it does depend on what illnesses you are referring to. I am aware that certain illnesses can be seen as an impediment to a person living well as a religious. It's certainly possible for people with psychological and physical illnesses to be married and have children, as I've seen it happen, but it does seem essential that they have adequate support and assistance where needed.

[OnlySunshine]

While my situation is not the same for everyone, I was told that I would be unable to be a Sister because of my need for medicine for depression.  Even though no signs are visible, hardly any religious order is willing to accept someone in my case who needs to take medication for the rest of their lives.  I am now looking into becoming a Consecrated Virgin because I feel called to remain single and consecrated.  It's not a default vocation for me at all.  I thought that God was calling me to religious life but now I get the impression that He was calling me to this other way all along.  :)

[Spem in alium]

While my situation is not the same for everyone, I was told that I would be unable to be a Sister because of my need for medicine for depression.  Even though no signs are visible, hardly any religious order is willing to accept someone in my case who needs to take medication for the rest of their lives.  I am now looking into becoming a Consecrated Virgin because I feel called to remain single and consecrated.  It's not a default vocation for me at all.  I thought that God was calling me to religious life but now I get the impression that He was calling me to this other way all along.  :)

Mater, I'm glad you have reached such a lovely outcome :) Prayers for you!

[BarbTherese]

When I entered monastic life in my forties, I had to come off all medication (I suffer Bipolar) and also give up smoking.  I did not abandon tboth until the day I entered (medication the night previously) and with smoking at the last minute of the day I entered.  I also had to abandon coffee in the cloister (only milo with supper and water at other meals provided) and I also had caffeine withdrawals probably as I loved my coffee and probably was addicted. Not slowly going off medication and the cigarettes until I entered was a very foolish move indeed as soon (once inside the enclosure) I was experiencing withdrawals.  Due to the withdrawals from both probably - even caffeine too, I found it very difficult to sleep and began to stress out. There were other for me severe stresses inside the enclosure related to the particular way of life in that particular monastery, but not only that.. What I did know that very often my illness will react negatively to stress and could result in an episode.  If I did have an episode, I knew my Sisters in religion would not know how to handle it all and it would be a very disturbing matter to my community.

Eventually because of stress and a massive beautiful yet entirely gory and graphic crucifix on the refectory wall to which we processed and genuflected, I completely lost my appetite.  In our novice meeting, mother spoke several times generally that if we did not eat, we would be a source of concern to our fellow sisters.  But the amount of food served was far more than I had ever ate in Bethany and I just could not get it all down.  I knew in the novice meeting, our NM was speaking indirectly to me and telling me off for being unable to eat.  I did wonder, and more unkind thoughts, why the Sisters would be aware of what I was or was not eating and what had happened to custody of the eyes in the refectory.

I became aware rather early on entering that the sacristan was concerned about me as I often saw her looking at me with concern.  I was homesick and missing my sons (I entered in another state of Australia to my home state) and I began to feel very guilty indeed about those who did have some need of me I had simply left behind and probably floundering to a degree as potential only. I was plagued by wondering if I had done the right thing - and more stress. Also, travelling to the monastery via train and bus and quite a long way - overnight(train) and then 2 buses and some hours to my destination, I was filled with great joy to be finally fulfilling what I felt was my vocation.  I had a very weird experience as I walked literally through the enclosure door from the exterior into the enclosure per se.  Joy absolutely vanished and I felt an increasing sadness and loss of joy that had vanished by the time I was shown my cell.. Peace of mind, heart and soul too was on the way out I knew.  I just felt totally empty and sad.  Then I found I could not pray at all during mental prayer.   I was hoping thiss too would eventually vanish, but it never did.  Mental Prayer time became agony for me.

 

Obviously something was showing to the sacristan of which I was not aware as being overt.  I thought I was hiding it all. Finally, I decided to leave before an episode got in first as stress mounted - and by the time I did leave, I knew in my heart that monastic life was not my vocation - rather my own aspiration.  If I was truly called to monastic life I felt I would not be in the position I found myself and a source of concern for one fellow Sister at least. i.e. our sacristan.  The Lord would provide me with necessary health with a vocation I felt.  Also, I had asked several times over a couple of days to speak with our novice mistress, but she never summoned me although I saw her many times, including at novice meetings, but profound silence prevailed in the monastery, other than at recreation and for absolutely necessary conversation as well as necessary speaking in novice mistress, including Chapter of Faults.  I couldl get down ok (prostrate position) but getting up was a real worry due to a back injury, as was genuflecting.  I was afraid I might fall over. I never did however.  I could not decide if it was absolute necessary or not onversation to waylay my NM and tell her I really needed to speak to her. I agonized over whether it would be a lapse in humility or obedience. I had left common sense outside the enclosure also.  I kept hoping it all would decrease and dissipate I did have one funny experience.  The bells for prayer rang and I was hurrying down a cloister to the Chapter Room where we assembled prior to processing down a cloister and to The Chapel.  As I passed a professed nun on the cloister was watering a potplant.  I was confused that she had not dropped everything to immediately answer the bells,  As I passed her she said "Hi, how youare you?".  Shocked, I just gave one of thos 'nunish nods' and more confused that she had spoken unnecessarily.  After those experiences, I was fighting unkind thoughts and also trying to sort out in my mind what might or might not strictly apply in this monastery.  At the time, not funny, but hindsight gives me a smile on recall.  In the Grand Silence after Compline, I would sometimes see novices talking to each other and at Chapter of Faults in novice meetings it seemed to me to be the stock standard fault confessed.  This confused me too.  There are other now quite funny incidents, but I dont want to make this post toooooo longggg. It's bad enough now.

             Finally, I just sent a messge to our novice mistress that I wanted to leave after Mass on that my final morning.  Our novice mistress was most concerned that Father would see me leave as after Mass he had breakfast in an area just outside the main enclosure door.  She instructed me via message before Mass to pack quickly as I had to leave before "Father saw you leaving".  I have often wondered why she did not take up my messages to speak with her.

After I had returned back to Bethany in South Australia, I received a letter from her in which she stated that she knew I was under "extreme" (her adjective) stress.  Certainly in my personal interviews Mother Prioress seemed realloy keen for me to enter, but not so much our Novice Mistress - possibly she suspected strongly their monastic way of life was not for me.

 

Back in Bethany finally, after catching the wrong train home and a very kind porter on the train got off with me at a station when I realized I was on the wrong train after chatting with a fellow passenger.  He took me to the stationmaster and asked him to ensure that I got on the right train.  I thought that was absolutely wonderfull and it brought a tiny glimmer of warmth back into my heart and soul, some hope.

 

  Back in Bethany I descended into depression including lack of motivation. Doubts flooded in that I had done the right thing. Later thoughts of how I could have handled it all better.  It was a journey of complete misery for months and months.  Slowly, slowly it began to lift - until finally, I dont kow exactly when it happened, I knew bayond teh slightest doubt I had done the right thing in leaving - and finally I admitted to myself that one of the reasons I had entered was to escape a very busy life in Bethany and constantly so at times - sometimes at ridiculous hours. Once people realized I was back, that situation began again but in the midst of it all I finally knew I was indeed following my vocation (Bethany, name of my residence wherever it might happen to be and also the name of my way of life) and my true call from God - and after that, I have never looked back with regrets.  I truly love monastic life and everything about it as monastic life - and when life gets difficult, I can look back with appreciation and a disappointment.  But I could never live it - but then many have no idea how I can live as I do in Bethany.

 

  It is all journey and one guided at every point, positive or negative, by The Lord.  And every person's unique journey is different - put yer hand in the Hand of The Man who stilled the water. Let The Lord have the driver's seat and if he is only a passenger, move over,  It is a dance with The Lord of The Dance - two steps forward, one back, four forward two back (I'm sure you get the drift) and at first one keeps taking one's hand out of His and on e gropes constantly for the driver's wheel and control, trying to get the reins again - and perhaps over and over again.  Perseverancei s the key - no matter failure nor its degree............ and one day one suddenlywakes up somewhat 'in shock' :

 

"How on earth did You get into the driver's seat, fer goodness sake! And why are You holding my hand so very tightly!"

[BarbTherese]

DUPLICATE POST, SORRY!

Edited April 24, 2013 by BarbaraTherese

[maximillion]

There are very many people who have varying crosses to bear health wise who marry, have children, who do enter communities ( some communities are very understanding, though re mental health there is a ways to go I think),  or who are living a consecrated life.

 

I address this to the original poster.....disability is not an exclusion nor should it be.

 

What is important is discerning His Will.

[marigold]

What should people do who have somatic or psychological problems/illness? Can they really become nuns/monks, priest (or even marry, ie. raising kids)?

 

I noticed your profile pic - är du svensk?

 

I agree with what others have said here much better than I could. BarbaraTherese especially, thank you for your post!

[BarbTherese]

:cheers2:

[BarbTherese]

There are very many people who have varying crosses to bear health wise who marry, have children, who do enter communities ( some communities are very understanding, though re mental health there is a ways to go I think),  or who are living a consecrated life.

 

I address this to the original poster.....disability is not an exclusion nor should it be.

 

What is important is discerning His Will.

 

Good post I thought!  Being a sufferer of Bipolar Disorder, I never thought I would find a monastic order who would accept me, but I did and the result of a phone call from a nun I knew.  I entered, but the life was not for me I eventually fully realized.  I have found my vocation living under private vows with spiritual direction (ongoing) and a specific way of life.  I truly love monastic life and the lifestyle - however I personally cannot live it.  There are those who cannot understand the way I now live and regard it as a total impossibility for themselves and this might be so.  As my dear mother-in-law used to say "on every pot there fits a lid'.  We are all a one of only.  Every single one of us is totally unique, never to be repeated - not ever.  We all have from God a specific vocation and mission here and an essential one.  Our universal call is to holiness, to be saints - I have read and frowned deeply posters writing as if this universal call to holiness is somewhat secondary to a vocation as understood in Catholic culture - the road we choose to take with God's Grace TO HOLINESS. The univeral call to holiness is NOT SECONDARY TO ANYTHING.  It is PRIME, FIRST, PARAMOUNT.  the road we take is our vocation from God.   This is one of the reasons, I think, why Pope Benedict not long ago wrote that the only thing Catholics have to fear is the sinfulness of its own Catholic membership, The Church.

 

 

In finding one's vocation, some know it from an early age and actually fulfill that knowledge in life.  Some find it later.  Many are the ways, the journey.  For some it is a windy and difficult road of many twists and turns.  For some it is an easy journey.  Some have a couple of vocations in the overall journey of life.  For some it might be a very painful journey of great difficulty and much suffering.  But I know from experience, hard experience, that The Lord never ever ever ever permits what we cannot endure with His Grace carrying us though one cannot feel this.  We might only think THINK that God has overstepped His Mark and put too much on our shoulders.  There is absolutely and totally no holiness, no saintliness, without The Cross.  This is one of the lessons of the cross in the life of Jesus - He embraced FULLY our humanity in every way.  He is the perfect human being - and the cross is at the heart of our Christianity, our Catholicism and at the heart of the life of Jesus. Suffering and the cross have been put at the heart of holiness by Jesus enduring His Own Passion and Death.  But free will remains, we can either accept and embrace or walk away in disgust.  This is why we have the cross, one reason anyway, as our mark and our emblem - that under which we march.  Suffering is not only the human condition but essential to it mysteriously.  It is, infact (suffering) a great honour and priviledge - but to embrace that with Joy and Peace, we MUST make a clean break with our own milieu, the soceity around us - or what we term 'the world' - not despisinig it but lovingly embracing it while yet not being of it, because God Loves to absolute abandonment all that He has created!

 

Thus if we keep that primary goal of holiness, of becoming saints, we simply aint gonna go wrong - while remaining human, faulted and fallible and the Good Lord knows this.  Sometimes I want to be perfect and kneel down in Confession and tears come - not the gift of tears I think, rather upset with myself that I have to kneel and confess whatever I confess in the first place.  Perfection is God's Gift to whomsoever He wishes while His Overwhleming almost madness love of us (we are God's weakness) is Merciful Love and he fully embraces us with Love and Mercy no matter the state of our soul.  If we get along to Confession and make a really good one, He simply does not love us more.  To love us more than He does is an absolute impossibility IMPOSSIBLE!

 

St Paul, Lord thank you for the gift of St Paul, wrote something totally profound that Jesus become incarnate and lived and died for us WHILE WE WERE YET SINNERS.  Holiness and perfection is God's free gift to whomsoever He chooses.  It is a grauitious gift, totally unearned even one minute iota.  His Stunning, amesome Love and Mercy for us is WHILE WE ARE SINNERS.

 

I think you are very correct, Catholicism as a specific culture still has a long way to go to wake up fully to the facts (not age old stereotypes and false information) about mental illness.  Society generally, I think, is more informed and embracing of the actual facts and has left Catholic culture, generally speaking, behind - society is more advanced in the journey.  Bipolar incidentally is the second most serious mental illness, the first being schizophrenia.  Both can have marked psychotic features as mine did.  Medication keeps me sane and on the plant and aside from nightly taking of psychiatric medication, I am as normal as the rest.  Normal is an interesting word. What is it? What normality is is that behaviour which applies to the majority in society - what the majority think and want within their society.  I have a saying "You might not be able to fool the people all the time, but you sure can fool many much of the time".  Time Magazine headlines, roughly 1970 or so I think, can't remember any more "In an insane society, the sane will be considered insane" and in the body of the articel "psychiatry is the invention of society to keep creativity in line"  What is creativity then - basically it is an ability and leaning to think outside accepted squares.  I like that term.  In my day a "square" was a person who had by obsession and compulsion to live and speak within squares, all of them. Aperson that lost the plot outside of all the accepted squares in society.

 

Another interesting Bipolar reflection of mine.  We know that God is very real - then for those that do not believe in God - are they in a' psychotic' state and cannot see reality, living in a delusional world?  Alvin Tofler in "Future Shock" and a gone crazy in sales bestseller at the time and still available I think.  His basic hypothesis put is that if we do not learn to be selective about the information we take in in a society with techology moving so quickly, then we are headed for mass schizophrenia?  A very interesting hypothesis. And back when he wrote the book and it hit with a very loud "bang" the bestseller list, techology in communication as on the internet, was not where it is now, nor even really imagined then, at least I dont think.

One thing about Tofler's book. It is very thick about 5-6 centimetres I think - and it has to have been the heaviest read I have ever undertaken - a real headache giver, if  one should get through it all, for the ordinary person in the street. But I did manage to glean what he was on about since the jacket gave me clues.  It did strike me as more for academics.  And much I simply could not understand, much I skipped as beyond me.

 

Disability is certainly not an exclusion from God calling one by vocation to a certain way of life, this is a complete cancellation of what we believe about God and what The Church teaches.  Not one single person does not have a quite unique personal call and vocation for life. It is nothing of a command, it is simply an invitation - and if one does not take that invitation up, then Grace, happiness, fulfillment Joy and Peace are still a distinct potential to holiness and saintliness and our universal call.  The Lord is not a mean and viscious Lord - if we choose other than His invitation then He sort of says "OK, let's get on with it then on your chosen road, huh?"  Catholic culture still has a way to go to fully accept and embrace those under private vows.

 

  Some religious orders may be more open to a mental illness disability and I have read that some even have been able to continue their medication (which kept them stable) in religious life.  I dont quite understand at all (other than if great expense is involved perhaps) the more general attitude that psychiatric type medication is an impediment to a religious vocation.  In short, could The Lord grant a vocation to religious life or consecrated life to a sufferer of disability or some kind of mental illness? Of course He can and does.  For sure, if one never gives up on The Lord and perseveres, is faithful to all Graces granted included that of conversion, beginning again, and sorrow for sin - The Lord just aint gonna give up on you to the point of holiness and sanctity.  No two ways about it!!!

[Antigonos]

What should people do who have somatic or psychological problems/illness? Can they really become nuns/monks, priest (or even marry, ie. raising kids)?

 

Speaking as a nurse, I should think it depends entirely on the individual situation. Some psychological problems make an intensive life in religion difficult to impossible, others do not.  Ditto physical problems. There is at least one order that has been mentioned on VS who takes young women with Down's Syndrome; others who cannot [often because they are already having a tough time coping with elderly sisters] accept another person who has special needs of any kind.  

 

Regarding marriage and children, the same principle applies.  In my career, I have seen some couples with significant disabilities raise children either on their own or with additional help; other people just cannot cope with married life at all, even if completely sane and healthy.  In marriage, of course, there is the question of whether a significant physical problem is hereditary.  Eastern European Jews have, for some time, had their children tested [in a special way which preserves privacy] for a particularly nasty and tragic genetic disease [Tay-Sachs] so that if both potential spouses who are unaffected but are carrying the gene can be advised against marriage since they will almost certainly perpetuate transmission of the gene in their children.  This has, in one generation, erased more than 80% of genetic transmission.  But this was a very special situation, among a community used to parental arranged marriages.

[freedomreigns]

I can relate to a lot of what has been posted on this thread.  I entered a religious community and had to leave because of terrible depression.  I was not allowed to take medication for the illness.  

 

For whatever reason I can not send you a PM, Mater Misericordia- but I can relate a lot to you.  I think of you as a kindred soul after seeing your courage in accepting God's Will for you.  After many years of discerning religious life and then finding that this was not my vocation, I am now discerning life as a consecrated lay woman and I too realize more and more that this is where the Lord was leading me all along.  I am grateful for my time in religious life because of the formation I received and I am happy to discover that the essence of that calling that I thought I had is still here.  

 

 

 

[Sponsa-Christi]

This isn’t directed to any one poster here, but as kind of a general public service announcement I feel like I should point out that having a mental health challenge which prevents one from entering religious life is not in and of itself a sign from God that one should discern consecrated virginity as a vocation (which is different from making a private vow or becoming a “consecrated lay woman”).

 

Besides the fact that consecrated virginity and religious life are two very different vocations with their own distinct charisms…speaking from years of study and personal experience, I would say that normally and in general a woman seriously discerning consecrated virginity should probably have good (or maybe even somewhat better-than-average) mental health. I love my vocation, but I would be the first to admit that at this point in history it can often be an extremely emotionally taxing one.

 

Even though I don’t think this is the way things should be, the practical reality of living as a consecrated virgin right now is that: you are likely to be near-constantly misunderstood; you’ll have a very minimal level of regular emotional support; and even good Catholics—including many well-intentioned priests and religious—will feel comfortable casually questioning your motives and generosity right to your face and in front of other people. (I am hopeful that things will be different in maybe ten or twenty years, but right now I think it’s necessary to be honest about the fact this is the way things are.)

 

I do believe it’s possible to live out a vocation to consecrated virginity faithfully and cheerfully, despite experiencing frequent discouragements. But at the same time, actually doing so can be more challenging than one might imagine. And so I think that it would be prudent for women interested in discerning consecrated virginity to be aware of the ways in which these kinds of challenges can have the potential to take their toll even on the personalities of women with no history of mental/emotional health issues.

 

Of course, with all that being said, each person’s individual circumstances are unique, and we don’t want to set our own limits on whom God can call according to His good pleasure or on what His grace can accomplish. Still, I hope this helps gives some realistic first-hand perspective on an under-discussed topic. 

[Sponsa-Christi]

This isn’t directed to any one poster here, but as kind of a general public service announcement I feel like I should point out that having a mental health challenge which prevents one from entering religious life is not in and of itself a sign from God that one should discern consecrated virginity as a vocation (which is different from making a private vow or becoming a “consecrated lay woman”).

 

Besides the fact that consecrated virginity and religious life are two very different vocations with their own distinct charisms…speaking from years of study and personal experience, I would say that normally and in general a woman seriously discerning consecrated virginity should probably have good (or maybe even somewhat better-than-average) mental health. I love my vocation, but I would be the first to admit that at this point in history it can often be an extremely emotionally taxing one.

 

Even though I don’t think this is the way things should be, the practical reality of living as a consecrated virgin right now is that: you are likely to be near-constantly misunderstood; you’ll have a very minimal level of regular emotional support; and even good Catholics—including many well-intentioned priests and religious—will feel comfortable casually questioning your motives and generosity right to your face and in front of other people. (I am hopeful that things will be different in maybe ten or twenty years, but right now I think it’s necessary to be honest about the fact this is the way things are.)

 

I do believe it’s possible to live out a vocation to consecrated virginity faithfully and cheerfully, despite experiencing frequent discouragements. But at the same time, actually doing so can be more challenging than one might imagine. And so I think that it would be prudent for women interested in discerning consecrated virginity to be aware of the ways in which these kinds of challenges can have the potential to take their toll even on the personalities of women with no history of mental/emotional health issues.

 

Of course, with all that being said, each person’s individual circumstances are unique, and we don’t want to set our own limits on whom God can call according to His good pleasure or on what His grace can accomplish. Still, I hope this helps gives some realistic first-hand perspective on an under-discussed topic. 

[OnlySunshine]

This isn’t directed to any one poster here, but as kind of a general public service announcement I feel like I should point out that having a mental health challenge which prevents one from entering religious life is not in and of itself a sign from God that one should discern consecrated virginity as a vocation (which is different from making a private vow or becoming a “consecrated lay woman”).

 

Besides the fact that consecrated virginity and religious life are two very different vocations with their own distinct charisms…speaking from years of study and personal experience, I would say that normally and in general a woman seriously discerning consecrated virginity should probably have good (or maybe even somewhat better-than-average) mental health. I love my vocation, but I would be the first to admit that at this point in history it can often be an extremely emotionally taxing one.

 

Even though I don’t think this is the way things should be, the practical reality of living as a consecrated virgin right now is that: you are likely to be near-constantly misunderstood; you’ll have a very minimal level of regular emotional support; and even good Catholics—including many well-intentioned priests and religious—will feel comfortable casually questioning your motives and generosity right to your face and in front of other people. (I am hopeful that things will be different in maybe ten or twenty years, but right now I think it’s necessary to be honest about the fact this is the way things are.)

 

I do believe it’s possible to live out a vocation to consecrated virginity faithfully and cheerfully, despite experiencing frequent discouragements. But at the same time, actually doing so can be more challenging than one might imagine. And so I think that it would be prudent for women interested in discerning consecrated virginity to be aware of the ways in which these kinds of challenges can have the potential to take their toll even on the personalities of women with no history of mental/emotional health issues.

 

Of course, with all that being said, each person’s individual circumstances are unique, and we don’t want to set our own limits on whom God can call according to His good pleasure or on what His grace can accomplish. Still, I hope this helps gives some realistic first-hand perspective on an under-discussed topic. 

 

While I appreciate what you are saying, I'm not doing this alone.  I received spiritual direction from the Sisters in my parish and they believe this is the best way for me to live out my vocation as a consecrated person.  Both of them have been around Consecrated Virgins and have worked with them so they know quite a bit about the life.  They are also trained in spiritual direction.

 

I do not feel called to natural marriage even though I love kids and think marriage is beautiful.  I understand there will be challenges -- there will be in any walk of life -- I believe that I'm meant to discern this vocation.  Whether or not I'll be consecrated is up to God and the Bishop.  As far as having good mental health, I have not had a relapse in quite a long time.  I've been on my medication for almost 3 years and it has worked wonders.  I'm doing better than I ever have with making straight "A" grades in school and working on bettering myself and living independently.  Hopefully, this helps anyone understand why I feel called to pursue consecrated life.  God bless.  :)

Edited April 25, 2013 by MaterMisericordiae