When Should You Baptize?

[PhuturePriest]

You sound rather more confident than the Catechism is on the subject. Not that I necessarily disagree with you (nor necessarily agree), but from what sources have you come to this conclusion?

 

Unfortunately, I do not believe he will get a chance to answer this...

[Nihil Obstat]

Unfortunately, I do not believe he will get a chance to answer this...

[Apotheoun]

I posted a link to Fr. Paul Turner's article on the sacraments of initiation in another thread, but thought I would post it here too. Fr. Paul highlights in the article the semi-pelagian tendencies in the modern practice (and by that he means the last 200 years) of the Roman Church in delaying the sacraments of initiation until catechetical instruction is completed, which is why past popes have tended to reject the delaying of the sacraments of confirmation and the eucharist, and they have been especially unhappy about the reversed sequence of the celebration of these mysteries, i.e., celebrating first communion before confirmation, a practice that make no sense sacramentally.

 

The original sequence for bestowing the mysteries of initiation should be restored (i.e., baptism, confirmation, eucharist). Below is a link to a helpful article written by Fr. Paul Turner that gives important background information on the topic: Benedict XVI and the Sequence of the Sacraments of Initiation

 

 

[Apotheoun]

The Church has never said this. We hope that this is what happens, but the Church has never infallibly declared this. Which is why baptism is still necessary for infants.

Many of the ancient Fathers said it. In fact, St. John Chrysostom in his Baptismal Instructions emphasizes that infant baptism is not about removing sin, because a new born baby - as he puts it - is sinless.

[PhuturePriest]

Many of the ancient Fathers said it. In fact, St. John Chrysostom in his Baptismal Instructions emphasizes that infant baptism is not about removing sin, because a new born baby - as he puts it - is sinless.

 

Yes, but just because an ancient Father says it doesn't mean it's true. I believe what he says, but that doesn't mean the Church believes it. The Church needs to take an official stance on it, and from what I know it has not as of yet, though it has hinted towards this way of thinking.

[Apotheoun]

Yes, but just because an ancient Father says it doesn't mean it's true. I believe what he says, but that doesn't mean the Church believes it. The Church needs to take an official stance on it, and from what I know it has not as of yet, though it has hinted towards this way of thinking.

In this case it is true. The Eastern Churches, both Catholic and Orthodox, have never accepted the exaggerated  Augustinian / Manichean notion that children are born sinful. Born mortal? Yes. But born sinful? No.

[Gabriela]

I wasn't baptized for 3 months after my birth.

 

I wasn't baptized for 25 years after my birth.

[Anastasia13]

I wasn't baptized for 25 years after my birth.

 

Better late than never.

[Gabriela]

Better late than never.

 

Amen.

[GeorgiiMichael]

i wholeheartedly agree that if the Sacraments of Initiation are to be staggered, Eucharist should be last. Eucharist has the most intricate theology of the three, and it makes sense that only fully initiated Christians should be able to partake. And if we're going to have a "coming of age" sacrament, the Eucharist clearly makes the most sense in that role. 

[Anastasia13]

It used to be or possibly still is common practice in the East  (Apotheun can you comment???) for the woman to stay at home with the child for 40 days and then come to the church for the first time after giving birth to recieve a blessing and begin receving the sacraments again. At that time the child would be baptized and churched. Wikipedia has an article called Churching of Women that has information on it, but I don't how accurate it is.

 

Churching is still practiced in the Coptic Church, which supposedly has its origins in the OT laws of purification of women after giving birth.  The law in the Coptic and the Ethiopian Churches is 40 days after giving birth to a boy, 80 days after giving birth to a girl. This purification law thing is kept in some EO churches as well as the Armenian church, but the Armenian church as well, but they use 40 days for boys and for girls. The numbers 40 and 80 refer to the days during which, according to ancient or medieval science, the male and female children are fully formed as humans in the womb. Most Orthodox babies are presented for a blessing after 40 days. Churching is similarly practiced among the Chalcedonians.  Copts also have something after 8 days (the age of a circumcised boy) but that is more of a prayer/celebration thing.

 

When a woman is churched, there are usually prayers said over her before she returns to church.  The reason for churching is according to one source because the mother needs time to heal from the ordeal of childbirth, and she and the child need bonding time. According to another source, the Churching of a Baby after 40 Days is equivalent to the presentation of Christ at the temple to fulfill Jewish law. It does seem to have some origins in Jewish tradition, and is also practiced among some Messianic groups. This churching is not a requirement for the Orthodox though.

Edited April 23, 2013 by Light and Truth

[Apotheoun]

Most of my Orthodox friends have had their kids baptized on the fortieth day after their birth. The Churching is done at the same time. If the baby is a boy he is taken into the sanctuary through the holy doors of the iconostasis and around the altar while various prayers may be chanted. If the baby is a girl she is taken to the icon of the Theotokos and prayers are said at that location.

[TheLordsSouljah]

I think the Jewish law for dedication laid out at 8 days after birth is a pretty good time frame... 

Not that I can really say anything because I had to wait far longer than that... :P

[Papist]

If we believe we are born with Original Sin, we would want our child cleansed from sin ASAP. Baptism is the first Sacrament of Initiation. I for one desire for my child to enter into the Church and receive the grace that comes with this Sacrament ASAP.  

[Anastasia13]

Cyprian of Carthage "As to what pertains to the case of infants: You [Fidus] said that they ought not to be baptized within the second or third day after their birth, that the old law of circumcision must be taken into consideration, and that you did not think that one should be baptized and sanctified within the eighth day after his birth. In our council it seemed to us far otherwise. No one agreed to the course which you thought should be taken. Rather, we all judge that the mercy and grace of God ought to be denied to no man born" (Letters 64:2 [A.D. 253]).

 

Augustine "Cyprian was not issuing a new decree but was keeping to the most solid belief of the Church in order to correct some who thought that infants ought not be baptized before the eighth day after their birth. . . . He agreed with certain of his fellow bishops that a child is able to be duly baptized as soon as he is born" (Letters 166:8:23 [A.D. 412]).

 

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/early-teachings-on-infant-baptism

 

The Church and the parents would deny a child the priceless grace of becoming a child of God were they not to confer Baptism shortly after birth. (CCC1250)

 

Can.  867 §1. Parents are obliged to take care that infants are baptized in the first few weeks; as soon as possible after the birth or even before it, they are to go to the pastor to request the sacrament for their child and to be prepared properly for it.

§2. An infant in danger of death is to be baptized without delay.