Coptic Orthodox Priest Evangelizes Muslims

[Apotheoun]

Journey to Orthodoxy

More Imams Convert To Christ

 

Islam’s Bane

 

Frontpage Interview’s guest today is Coptic priest Fr. Zakaria Botros, who al Qaeda has called “one of the most wanted infidels in the world,” issuing a 60 million dollar bounty on his head. Popular Arabic magazines also call him “Islam’s public enemy #1?. He hosts a television program, “Truth Talk,” on Life TV. His two sites are Islam-Christianity.net and FatherZakaria.net. He was recently awarded the Daniel of the Year award.

 

FP:  Let’s begin with your own personal story, in terms of Islam and Christianity.

 

Botros:  I am a Copt. In my early 20s, I became a priest. Of course, in predominantly Muslim Egypt, Christians—priests or otherwise—do not talk about religion with Muslims. My older brother, a passionate Christian learned that lesson too late: after preaching to Muslims, he was eventually ambushed by Muslims who cut out his tongue and murdered him. Far from being deterred or hating Muslims, I eventually felt more compelled to share the Good News with them. Naturally, this created many problems: I was constantly harassed, threatened, and eventually imprisoned and tortured for one year, simply for preaching to Muslims. Egyptian officials charged me with abetting “apostasy,” that is, for being responsible for the conversion of Muslims to Christianity. Another time I was arrested while boarding a plane out of Egypt. Eventually, however, I managed to flee my native country and resided for a time in Australia and England. Anyway, my life-story with Christianity and Islam is very long and complicated. In fact, an entire book about it was recently published.

 

FP:  I apologize for asking this, but what were some of the tortures you endured when you were imprisoned?

 

Botros: Due to my preaching the Gospel, Egyptian soldiers broke into my home putting their guns to my head. Without telling me why, they arrested me and placed me in an extremely small prison cell (1.8×1.5×1.8 meters, which was further problematic, since I am 1.83 meters tall), with other inmates, and in well over 100 degree temperatures, with little ventilation, no windows, and no light. No beds of course, we slept on the floor—in shifts, as there was not enough room for all of us to lie down. Due to the lack of oxygen, we used to also take shifts lying with our noses under the crack of the cell door to get air. As a result, I developed a kidney infection (receiving, of course, no medical attention). Mosquitoes plagued us. Food was delivered in buckets; we rarely even knew what the gruel was. The prison guards would often spit in the bucket in front of us, as well as fling their nose pickings in it.

 

FP:  My heart goes out to you in terms of this terrible suffering you endured. What is your primary purpose in what you do?

 

Botros:  Simple: the salvation of souls. As I always say, inasmuch as I may reject Islam, I love Muslims. Thus, to save the latter, I have no choice but to expose the former for the false religion it is. Christ commanded us to spread the Good News. There is no rule that says Christians should proselytize the world—except for Muslims! Of course, trying to convert the latter is more dangerous. But we cannot forsake them. This is more important considering that many Muslims are “religious” and truly seek to please God; yet are they misdirected. So I want to take their sincerity and piety and direct it to the True Light.

 

FP:  In what way can you summarize for us why you think that Islam is a “false” religion?

 

Botros:  Theologically, as I am a Christian priest, I believe that only Christianity offers the truth. Based on my faith in Christ, I reject all other religious systems as man-made and thus not reflective of divine truths.Moreover, one of the greatest crimes committed by Muhammad—a crime which he shall surely never be forgiven for—is that he denied the grace and mercy that Christ brought, and took humanity back to the age of the law.

 

But faith aside, common sense alone makes it clear that, of all the world’s major religions, Islam is most certainly false. After all, while I may not believe in, say, Buddhism, still, it obviously offers a good philosophical system and people follow it apparently for its own intrinsic worth. The same cannot be said about Islam. Of all the religions it is the only one that has to threaten its adherents with death if they try to break away; that, from its inception, in order to “buy” followers, has been dedicated to fulfilling some of the worst impulses of man—for conquest, sex, plunder, pride. History alone demonstrates all this: while Christianity was spread far and wide by Christians who altruistically gave up their lives, simply because they believed in Christ, Islam spread by force, by the edge of the sword, by fear, threats, and lurid enticements to the basest desires of man. Islam is by far the falsest religion—an assertion that is at once theologically, philosophically, and historically demonstrable.

 

FP:  You always document your discussions with Islamic sources. Why do Muslim clerics and imams have such a difficulty discussing what Islam itself teaches and instead just attack you personally?

 

Botros:  I think the answer is obvious. The Islamic sources, the texts, speak for themselves. Muslims have no greater enemy than their own scriptures—particularly the Hadith and Sira—which constantly scandalize and embarrass Muslims. To date, I have done well over 500 different episodes dedicated to various topics regarding Islam. And for every one of these episodes, all my material comes directly from Islam’s textual sources, particularly usul al-fiqh—the Koran, hadith, and ijma of the ulema as found in their tafsirs.

 

So what can the sheikhs of Islam do? If they try to address the issue I raise based on Islam’s texts and sharia, they will have no choice but to agree—for instance that concubinage is legal, or that drinking camel urine is advocated. The only strategy left them, then, is to ignore all that I present and attack my person, instead.

 

And when well-meaning Muslims ask their leaders to respond to these charges, one of their favorite responses is to quote the Koran, where it says “Do not ask questions of things that will hurt you.”

 

 

Click here to read the rest of the interview

 

[Apotheoun]

The truth about Muhammed

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvIsai-KkDA

 

[CatholicsAreKewl]

Interesting post. Muslims also point to a large number of Christian converts to Islam. I don't know if I can say either or has better reasoning for their conversion. 

[Apotheoun]

Christians do convert in Islamic countries, but many do so under threats of physical violence or other forms of persecution.

 

Here a group of Muslim men chanting Allahu Ahkbar attack a Coptic woman:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmpMKA7ny04

 

 

Here is a link to another thread that documents some of the recent Islamic violence against Coptic Christians in Egypt:

 

Egypt’s Christian Pope Blasts Islamist President

 

Edited April 20, 2013 by Apotheoun

[CatholicsAreKewl]

Christians do convert in Islamic countries, but many do so under threats of physical violence or other forms of persecution.

 

Here a group of Muslim men chanting Allahu Ahkbar attack a Coptic woman:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmpMKA7ny04

 

 

Here is a link to another thread that documents some of the recent Islamic violence against Coptic Christians in Egypt:

 

Egypt’s Christian Pope Blasts Islamist President

I'm referring to Christians in America who are well versed on the Bible and their beliefs who decide to convert to Islam. It's not totally insane for Christians to convert to Islam. It's hard to objectively say that one faith is a more accurate than the other. 

Edited April 21, 2013 by CatholicsAreKewl

[Apotheoun]

I'm referring to Christians in America who are well versed on the Bible and their beliefs who decide to convert to Islam. It's not totally insane for Christians to convert to Islam. It's hard to objectively say that one faith is a more accurate than the other. 

Converts in America are nowhere near as numerous as Muslim immigrants to America. When I was a boy there were perhaps half a million Muslims in the United States (if that many). But in the last 40 years the number of Muslims has grown exponentially and almost exclusively from immigration.

 

Now are there Americans who convert to Islam? Sure, but it is not a mass movement, and most of those who convert know very little about Christianity. Let's not forget that the Catholic Church (and a lot of other ecclesial communities for that matter) has done a dismal job in catechizing people since the late 1960s. To be honest I am amazed that more American "Christians" haven't converted to Islam, because most know little or nothing about the Christian faith. I was always stunned by the absolute lack of knowledge of basic Christian doctrines by the Catholic young people I met at SFSU in the late 1990s and early 2000s. Honestly the least knowledgeable about Catholic doctrine and morality were the kids who had attended Catholic elementary, middle, and high schools prior to entering college.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Apotheoun

[CatholicsAreKewl]

Now are there Americans who convert to Islam? Sure, but it is not a mass movement, and most of those who convert know very little about Christianity. Let's not forget that the Catholic Church (and a lot of other ecclesial communities for that matter) has done a dismal job in catechizing people since the late 1960s. To be honest I am amazed that more American "Christians" haven't converted to Islam, because most know little or nothing about the Christian faith. I was always stunned by the absolute lack of knowledge of basic Christian doctrines by the Catholic young people I met at SFSU in the late 1990s and early 2000s. Honestly the least knowledgeable about Catholic doctrine and morality were the kids who had attended Catholic elementary, middle, and high schools prior to entering college.

You sound like the Muslims I talk to when I bring up Muslim converts to Christianity.  :bananarap:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOZSrPF5GNo

 

Edited April 21, 2013 by CatholicsAreKewl

[Guest Sojourn]

I'm referring to Christians in America who are well versed on the Bible and their beliefs who decide to convert to Islam. It's not totally insane for Christians to convert to Islam. It's hard to objectively say that one faith is a more accurate than the other. 

 

Most Christians who apostasize and embrace Islam are not well versed in their faith. They are easily confounded by the standard Islamic polemics over the Trinity being unreasonable and the Biblical text corrupt. Most of these poor souls are Protestant but sadly many are Catholic as well. That said, I disagree with you that it's impossible to objectively say one religion is more accurate than the other. For one, we know from a historical point of view Islam is objectively wrong in saying Jesus was never crucified. As to what actually happened the Muslims are in disagreement, some commentators offer the bizarre explanation that another disciple of Jesus was made to look like him so that he may take his place on the cross! But even from a metaphysical perspective, anyone reading the Quran knows it's the work of a carnal man and not the sublime Spirit of God. It lacks absolute truth and instead speaks of situations concerning the Arabs of the Hijaaz in that time. Perhaps one of the more unfortunate cases is the verse 'revealing' Allah's insistance that Zainab, the wife of Muhammad's adopted son, divorce and then marry Muhammad as a sign that such a marriage would not be considered divorce. Of course, Zainab was a very beautiful woman and Muhammad had desired her, how convenient that Allah should reveal such a verse! We could go on but the point is the Way of Jesus is incomparably superior to the way of Muhammad.

[CatholicsAreKewl]

Most Christians who apostasize and embrace Islam are not well versed in their faith. They are easily confounded by the standard Islamic polemics over the Trinity being unreasonable and the Biblical text corrupt. Most of these poor souls are Protestant but sadly many are Catholic as well. That said, I disagree with you that it's impossible to objectively say one religion is more accurate than the other. 

 

How can you prove that? It seems like a statement resulting from the availability heuristic. Regardless, I am tempted to agree with the spirit of your statement, though I can't be so sure what you said is fact. Any religious group will argue this cynical view. We have to be careful to acknowledge that well versed Christians are just as susceptible as well versed Muslims to convert. In fact, It's safer to argue that Christians are way more likely to convert because they won't face the punishment for apostasy if they convert, like some Muslims will. 

 

 

 

For one, we know from a historical point of view Islam is objectively wrong in saying Jesus was never crucified. As to what actually happened the Muslims are in disagreement, some commentators offer the bizarre explanation that another disciple of Jesus was made to look like him so that he may take his place on the cross! But even from a metaphysical perspective, anyone reading the Quran knows it's the work of a carnal man and not the sublime Spirit of God. It lacks absolute truth and instead speaks of situations concerning the Arabs of the Hijaaz in that time. Perhaps one of the more unfortunate cases is the verse 'revealing' Allah's insistance that Zainab, the wife of Muhammad's adopted son, divorce and then marry Muhammad as a sign that such a marriage would not be considered divorce. Of course, Zainab was a very beautiful woman and Muhammad had desired her, how convenient that Allah should reveal such a verse! We could go on but the point is the Way of Jesus is incomparably superior to the way of Muhammad.

I am not sure how this proves Christianity is objectively a better or more true religion. The first thing a Muslim would bring up is the fact that the Bible has changed over time and how the Qur'an has remained constant (though this is somewhat untrue because the Qur'an is missing some verses). The Bible has many historical inaccuracies as well. I don't know how that would objectively determine whether God revealed his holy book to Muhammad or not. The reason why we can't do this is that the arguments denying the truth of one religion would conveniently translate onto any religion if we're remaining objective.  

Edited April 21, 2013 by CatholicsAreKewl

[CatholicsAreKewl]

But even from a metaphysical perspective, anyone reading the Quran knows it's the work of a carnal man and not the sublime Spirit of God. It lacks absolute truth and instead speaks of situations concerning the Arabs of the Hijaaz in that time. 

That might be obvious to an outsider but one might look at the Old Testament in the same way. 

Perhaps one of the more unfortunate cases is the verse 'revealing' Allah's insistance that Zainab, the wife of Muhammad's adopted son, divorce and then marry Muhammad as a sign that such a marriage would not be considered divorce. Of course, Zainab was a very beautiful woman and Muhammad had desired her, how convenient that Allah should reveal such a verse! We could go on but the point is the Way of Jesus is incomparably superior to the way of Muhammad.

Yes, and, if im not mistaken, Aisha called him out for this. However, there is no way to prove that Muhammad did not actually receive this revelation from God. In the Old Testamant, God works in a similarly strange way. It's also equally taxing to explain why God would send his son to save the sins of man. It's confusing enough to explain why God has a son. Any outsider looking at a religion will think it's insane. 

[Guest Sojourn]

How can you prove that? It seems like a statement resulting from the availability heuristic. Regardless, I am tempted to agree with the spirit of your statement, though I can't be so sure what you said is fact. Any religious group will argue this cynical view. We have to be careful to acknowledge that well versed Christians are just as susceptible as well versed Muslims to convert. In fact, It's safer to argue that Christians are way more likely to convert because they won't face the punishment for apostasy if they convert, like some Muslims will. 

 

 

I speak from my own personal experience. I have met many a so called "revert" to Islam and discovered they never understood their faith to begin with. But Islam offers a lot of benefits on a psychological and social level, for example a strong sense of unity and brotherhood. You enter a masjid and as a Muslim you are treated like family, compare this to sitting in a pew where people shake hands at the sign of peace but there is little sense of real community. Furthermore, Muslims actually believe in their religion. They actually believe the Quran is the word of Allah, whereas most Christians have become very weak in their faith. Views that were onced condemned as modernist are now openly taught and held, in fact if you open the New American Bible, aka "The official Catholic Bible," you will read introductions and commentaries by textual critics that clearly deny the faith. People in our post-modern age are lost and seeking to fill the void in their lives, Christ can fill that void but many forms of contemporary Christianity are simply decaying systems that will eventually find their way into the annals of history. And so in this context Islam offers an attractive alternative despite being utterly nonsensical under rational scrutiny.

 

I am not sure how this proves Christianity is objectively a better or more true religion. The first thing a Muslim would bring up is the fact that the Bible has changed over time and how the Qur'an has remained constant (though this is somewhat untrue because the Qur'an is missing some verses). The Bible has many historical inaccuracies as well. I don't know how that would objectively determine whether God revealed his holy book to Muhammad or not. The reason why we can't do this is that the arguments denying the truth of one religion would conveniently translate onto any religion if we're remaining objective. 

 

When judging a message you do so intellectually and spiritually. As a Christian I know the religion of Muhammad is false because it contains basic errors about my faith, namely Christ not being crucified, suggesting Mary is a goddess, thinking the liturgy has something to do with a table descending from heaven, and purporting known legend as historical reality (e.g. Christ turning clay birds into living ones.) I always found that last point ironic, since Muslims are forced to believe as fact the stories we Chrsitians know are fake! Islam also doesn't address the main points of my religion, namely redemption and resurrection and therefore reflects an ignorance on the author's part. And lastly, one only need to look at the life of Muhammad to be turned off from considering him a model for all mankind. These are all ways that in my intellect I know Islam to be a false religion. Spiritually speaking one can say there is a lack of grace drawing me to Islam but also there is a lack of signs. Muhammad preached for thirteen years in Mekka but the Mekkans were unimpressed by the so called divine speech of Allah he was revealing. They asked Muhammad to bring a sign proving that he was a prophet from God and he did not do so, instead he pointed back to his message saying that it was the miracle given to them. Thirteen years of Quranic revelation did not convert many people, and it wasn't until Muhammad emmigrated to Yathrib where he formed a coalition that then began to raid Mekkan caravans, which led to a war, and the rest is history. Any true message will bear signs and miracles and there are many associated with Christ and his followers. Even within our own time we have such great events as the Miracle of Fatima and such great miracle workers as Padre Pio. God constantly invests the truth with signs, whereas falsehood bears nothing.

[CatholicsAreKewl]

Thanks for the in depth response. I will respond by sections. 

 

 

I speak from my own personal experience. I have met many a so called "revert" to Islam and discovered they never understood their faith to begin with. But Islam offers a lot of benefits on a psychological and social level, for example a strong sense of unity and brotherhood. You enter a masjid and as a Muslim you are treated like family, compare this to sitting in a pew where people shake hands at the sign of peace but there is little sense of real community. Furthermore, Muslims actually believe in their religion. They actually believe the Quran is the word of Allah, whereas most Christians have become very weak in their faith. Views that were onced condemned as modernist are now openly taught and held, in fact if you open the New American Bible, aka "The official Catholic Bible," you will read introductions and commentaries by textual critics that clearly deny the faith. People in our post-modern age are lost and seeking to fill the void in their lives, Christ can fill that void but many forms of contemporary Christianity are simply decaying systems that will eventually find their way into the annals of history. And so in this context Islam offers an attractive alternative despite being utterly nonsensical under rational scrutiny.

 

I agree. The Muslim faith is concerned much more with this world. It has rules that govern the cultural, spiritual, and political life of believers. They are also very communal. I don't know if I can say Muslims on average believe and follow their religion more than a Christian might. The religion is somewhat ingrained in the culture of its believers. It sometimes creates situations where people will live double lives in order to live up to societal standards. Most Muslims will fast during Ramadan, true. But many Muslims will also drink immediately before and after Ramadan. It is extremely looked down upon for a woman to enter into marriage as a non-virgin. In some societies, the family of the groom will even check the bed sheets the day after the honey-moon in search of blood.  For this reason, hymen reconstructive surgery is popular in the Middle East.
I agree that most Christians are very ignorant about their faith, but most Muslims are too. You are very right about the seductive aspect of this religion. It seems that humans are prone to find a religious or governmental system that takes care of everything. Islam offers that sort of system. Christianity also offers a system that has less rules, is less stringent, and is focused on the idea of love and forgiveness. That's also pretty seductive.  I don't know if the ignorant would be more prone to convert than those who are well versed in their faiths. You did cite some personal examples and I do not doubt that it could be possible on the grand scale. However, I feel that educated people of either religion could convert to the other. It might be cynical to say that most converts convert out of ignorance to their belief systems. 

When judging a message you do so intellectually and spiritually. As a Christian I know the religion of Muhammad is false because it contains basic errors about my faith, namely Christ not being crucified, suggesting Mary is a goddess, thinking the liturgy has something to do with a table descending from heaven, and purporting known legend as historical reality (e.g. Christ turning clay birds into living ones.) I always found that last point ironic, since Muslims are forced to believe as fact the stories we Chrsitians know are fake! Islam also doesn't address the main points of my religion, namely redemption and resurrection and therefore reflects an ignorance on the author's part. And lastly, one only need to look at the life of Muhammad to be turned off from considering him a model for all mankind. These are all ways that in my intellect I know Islam to be a false religion.

 

Fascinating, I did not know about Mary being confused as one of the persons in the trinity until you pointed this out. I can definitely see how you could argue with a Muslim on these points. However, this does not take away from the fact that there are historical inaccuracies in the Bible. There is also the issue with possible forged epistles. Also, if one believes Muhammad was really the messenger of God, then his actions are not too farfetched. There were many Old Testament prophets that acted horribly as well (Elisha and the two bears is the first story that comes to mind). 

 

 

Spiritually speaking one can say there is a lack of grace drawing me to Islam but also there is a lack of signs. Muhammad preached for thirteen years in Mekka but the Mekkans were unimpressed by the so called divine speech of Allah he was revealing. They asked Muhammad to bring a sign proving that he was a prophet from God and he did not do so, instead he pointed back to his message saying that it was the miracle given to them. Thirteen years of Quranic revelation did not convert many people, and it wasn't until Muhammad emmigrated to Yathrib where he formed a coalition that then began to raid Mekkan caravans, which led to a war, and the rest is history. Any true message will bear signs and miracles and there are many associated with Christ and his followers. Even within our own time we have such great events as the Miracle of Fatima and such great miracle workers as Padre Pio. God constantly invests the truth with signs, whereas falsehood bears nothing.

I don't know if I would stake religious truth on miracles. Miracles exist in every religion. Some sufi mystics were known to perform miracles and bilocate. 

Edited April 21, 2013 by CatholicsAreKewl

[Apotheoun]

You sound like the Muslims I talk to when I bring up Muslim converts to Christianity.  :bananarap:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOZSrPF5GNo

As soon as he said that the "minister" graduated with a Masters in Divinity from Harvard I lost all respect for the "Christian" convert. I am amazed that anyone who goes into Harvard, let alone who graduates from that liberal mainline institution, remains a Christian.

[Apotheoun]

How can you prove that? It seems like a statement resulting from the availability heuristic. Regardless, I am tempted to agree with the spirit of your statement, though I can't be so sure what you said is fact. Any religious group will argue this cynical view. We have to be careful to acknowledge that well versed Christians are just as susceptible as well versed Muslims to convert. In fact, It's safer to argue that Christians are way more likely to convert because they won't face the punishment for apostasy if they convert, like some Muslims will. 

One does not have to argue from a "cynical" perspective to say that many people who know a lot of "facts" about Christian theology are not necessarily Christian. If you read the ancient Fathers they make it clear that knowledge of God is not learned in a school, but is revealed through grace and prayer. In fact, to paraphrase St. Gregory of Nyssa . . . it is only when a man leaves behind the discursive reasoning that he mistakenly believes gives him knowledge of God, that he can truly find God by faith. The Eastern Fathers would never accept the Scholastic notion that faith is an act of intellect and will, because for them faith transcends the human person, while simultaneously elevating him beyond himself into the very uncreated life and glory of the Trinity. It is not because a man finds the Christian revelation reasonable that he comes to faith, because that would be little more than a form of Pelagianism; instead, it is because God has infused the man with His uncreated energies, which enable him to see clearly what is beyond all vision, that he can have faith in Christ.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Apotheoun

[Apotheoun]

 

I am not sure how this proves Christianity is objectively a better or more true religion. The first thing a Muslim would bring up is the fact that the Bible has changed over time and how the Qur'an has remained constant (though this is somewhat untrue because the Qur'an is missing some verses). The Bible has many historical inaccuracies as well. I don't know how that would objectively determine whether God revealed his holy book to Muhammad or not. The reason why we can't do this is that the arguments denying the truth of one religion would conveniently translate onto any religion if we're remaining objective.  

Actually, the Qur'an has not remained constant through the centuries. There are earlier editions of the Qur'an that show evidence of editing. The Atlantic had an interesting article on that several years ago. Click the link below to read the essay:

 

What Is the Koran?